i was span minty[
]
]Classic 934.5/RSRs racing at Spa
- Thread starter PhilRS
- Start date
Neil Haughey
New member
I think the idea with the both feet in technique is that it scrubs a lot of speed for the small period of time that the car is still on the black stuff. The problem with trying to catch a big spin is what happens if you don't get it right and get spat off at speed in a big tank slapper?
I was pax'ing with Chris W in his 964 clubbie and we did something very similar to the 934 without hitting the wall. We rotated in towards the wall and then proceeded to travel backwards parallel to it for its length, bouncing along on the grass. I distinctly remember looking at all the battle scars on that wall as we buzzed past it and thinking "hmmmmm we are actually quite close to this!".
As the car scrubbed off speed on the wet grass, it gently spun round 180 degrees and we just continued on our way in disbelief we hadn't managed to put another graze on that wall.
You'll have to ask Chris what he was doing with the steering wheel, I was too busy looking at the wall !
The 24hr pit lane white line at Radillion is surprisingly slippery as well for those who haven't experienced it.
As the car scrubbed off speed on the wet grass, it gently spun round 180 degrees and we just continued on our way in disbelief we hadn't managed to put another graze on that wall.
You'll have to ask Chris what he was doing with the steering wheel, I was too busy looking at the wall !
The 24hr pit lane white line at Radillion is surprisingly slippery as well for those who haven't experienced it.
same white line , thought it had dried out ...........seemed forever down the straight.......visions of expensive orange alloy bonnet and doors and the bill.........................just muddy ..........................short answer terror and pure luck in my case .................oh and the organiser of the day sitting in the passenger seat..............cool as a cucumber !
PhilRS
New member
Well, the scientists in me thinks that since this is a popular theme (with considerable past experiences) we resolve the debate with some statistics.
We could divide ourselves into two groups: "The both feet in" and the "Steer in a spin."
We would score with a 1 those who touch the wall at the top of Eau Rouge and with a 0 those who don't.
More seriously, one argument for controlled steering, in this particular instance, is that the car is typically rolling backwards parallel to the wall, so steering inputs amount to J-turning (into or away from the wall).
We could divide ourselves into two groups: "The both feet in" and the "Steer in a spin."
We would score with a 1 those who touch the wall at the top of Eau Rouge and with a 0 those who don't.
More seriously, one argument for controlled steering, in this particular instance, is that the car is typically rolling backwards parallel to the wall, so steering inputs amount to J-turning (into or away from the wall).
paul howells
New member
you kept that one quite vic[]
Racers golden rule stay off slippery white lines until dry.Ok ish with proper wets on,but you still need to pick your places,the one white line to avoid is the one concerned at spa especially in a 911.
The silverstone school was both fit in in a spin to minimise damage.
Lets hope oulton is warm and dry for the first day out
]Racers golden rule stay off slippery white lines until dry.Ok ish with proper wets on,but you still need to pick your places,the one white line to avoid is the one concerned at spa especially in a 911.
The silverstone school was both fit in in a spin to minimise damage.
Lets hope oulton is warm and dry for the first day out
DSCBoy
New member
To be honest... if you've got people behind u need to be consistent, and if you are happy enough that you've got room to stop with it all locked up you can argue that way...
BUT, the car will slow quicker WITHOUT the tyres locked up, AND you'll retain (some) control over the car...
In the Clio V6's, if you were spinning off, it was usually because you'd been "2-wooded" by the bloke behind... so if you took him out with the spin, it was just deserts! ;-)
And also, if it all goes wrong at Spa, there aren't many places where there's sufficient room to scrub it off if locked up given the speeds... arrived at Blanchimont with the back right tyre flat in qually in the V6 in 2002, turned in at 150mph.... had to spin it A LOT of times to avoid disappearing into the valley off the edge never to be seen again, despite the F1 sized tarmac run-off... and still introduced myself to the tyre wall pretty firmly. Locking it all up I'd have never got enough speed off for the car to survive.
So I'd never do it, and I prefer my tyres stopping me as quick as possible rather than burning themselves off the rim... but can see the argument.
Cheers
Rick
BUT, the car will slow quicker WITHOUT the tyres locked up, AND you'll retain (some) control over the car...
In the Clio V6's, if you were spinning off, it was usually because you'd been "2-wooded" by the bloke behind... so if you took him out with the spin, it was just deserts! ;-)
And also, if it all goes wrong at Spa, there aren't many places where there's sufficient room to scrub it off if locked up given the speeds... arrived at Blanchimont with the back right tyre flat in qually in the V6 in 2002, turned in at 150mph.... had to spin it A LOT of times to avoid disappearing into the valley off the edge never to be seen again, despite the F1 sized tarmac run-off... and still introduced myself to the tyre wall pretty firmly. Locking it all up I'd have never got enough speed off for the car to survive.
So I'd never do it, and I prefer my tyres stopping me as quick as possible rather than burning themselves off the rim... but can see the argument.
Cheers
Rick
Rick, I fancy your car control is above average (for club racers) therefore, you are probably in better situation attempting to save it. For the rest of us, by the time we've worked out we arent going to catch, we can probably hit the brakes quickly enough to continue in the general direction of the track.
The heavier the car, the less it works I guess.
The heavier the car, the less it works I guess.
oldtimer
PCGB Member
Just a late contribution to the car control debate . Late last year at Oulton , day had been wet on and off , no white lines were involved but the setting was Druids.....which I believe has a variety of spin inducing features like retention of moisture , different surface materials , bumps.
Witness / passenger was Kevin Asbridge . We were roughly 2/3 of the way thru the corner , close to the second apex , back came round 180 deg so that we were running backwards , now had RHS ( passenger side ) of car with wheels on the grass , and LHS (drivers side) on the tarmac and running parallel to tyre wall / mound on inside of Druids .
The only thing I recall doing was foot in on clutch as I dont like running the engine backwards - it upsets ECU
Did not move right foot off accelerator , must be a hard coded '911 dont lift' setting of the human ECU
The steering was a bit opposite lock but not much away from centre , it had happened so fast that my 68 year old brain had only just started the opposite lock manoeuvre and the steering is very heavy on a LHD RS.
After about 50 metres the car front overtook the back to complete the 360 deg turn and we were pointing the right way again and headed toward the outside of the exit . Could now gather it up .
We did complete the lap and retire gracefully to pits to face the stewards enquiry []
Witness / passenger was Kevin Asbridge . We were roughly 2/3 of the way thru the corner , close to the second apex , back came round 180 deg so that we were running backwards , now had RHS ( passenger side ) of car with wheels on the grass , and LHS (drivers side) on the tarmac and running parallel to tyre wall / mound on inside of Druids .
The only thing I recall doing was foot in on clutch as I dont like running the engine backwards - it upsets ECU
Did not move right foot off accelerator , must be a hard coded '911 dont lift' setting of the human ECU
The steering was a bit opposite lock but not much away from centre , it had happened so fast that my 68 year old brain had only just started the opposite lock manoeuvre and the steering is very heavy on a LHD RS.
After about 50 metres the car front overtook the back to complete the 360 deg turn and we were pointing the right way again and headed toward the outside of the exit . Could now gather it up .
We did complete the lap and retire gracefully to pits to face the stewards enquiry [
]John, I'm glad the car lived to tell the tale and I assume you know that once you've put the clutch in, you've lost drive so what you do with the throttle is irrelevent. My guess is had you hit the brakes too, the car would have spun down the track to a stop.
...and if you were Rick, you'd have kept the clutch engaged, added a dab of oppo and been on your way. Us mere mortals work differently! And thats why I think, the general rule of "in a spin 2 feet in" is right for most people, except those that can truly drive.
Nice story, lets hope its not repeated this Friday.
Hacki
Active member
That is one reason why I never tried to get back control - it´s like sitting on the inner end of a turning hammer and the momentums are indeed special. But no matter what car I do think for an average track day / club sport guy the both feet in solution is perfect. A pro will tell you in detail what happened during the spin, I was just happy not having hit anybody or anything after a spin.
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