Mark
Have you the Balls to organise the concours for R18 in 2004?
David
Have you the Balls to organise the concours for R18 in 2004?
David
CONCOURS RESULTS
- Thread starter Rubber_Man
- Start date
I have read the comments made regarding the Region 2003 Concours and it really saddens me to hear some of the comments that have been posted.
There have been some extremely valid points raised in this discussion by participating members and their contributions are eloquently laid out.
However I am concerned that the less constructive elements of this debate may degenerate further and by airing any ' dirty washing' in public could cause unnecessary damage to all parties.
Whilst encouraging healthy debate on the forum, I would suggest that further discussions should take place at the next monthly on the 18 June 2003 where comments can be aired freely and above all - face to face.
I look forward to seeing you all there,
Kind regards,
Peter
There have been some extremely valid points raised in this discussion by participating members and their contributions are eloquently laid out.
However I am concerned that the less constructive elements of this debate may degenerate further and by airing any ' dirty washing' in public could cause unnecessary damage to all parties.
Whilst encouraging healthy debate on the forum, I would suggest that further discussions should take place at the next monthly on the 18 June 2003 where comments can be aired freely and above all - face to face.
I look forward to seeing you all there,
Kind regards,
Peter
Guest
New member
Peter
Surely the main reason for having a forum such as this is to extend the discussion and feedback on events and other matters to people who have previously been disenfranchised by either their location relative to the monthly meeting or their other commitments!
Also - is this really " dirty washing" - most of what I have read appears to be constructive comment which can be used for the benefit of the club in organising other events.
I have attended various events in the past organised by the PCGB and when I have read the subsequent reports in the Porsche Post have often believed the writers had been to a different event altogether! - up until now there has been no method of feedback which is readily accessible to members. It doesn' t have to be negative or destructive - it can be positive and constructive. A case in point - when I attended Highclere about 3 years ago the Saturday morning organisation was atrocious - nobody knew what was happening where to park etc - by Sunday this had all changed and the organisation was slick and professional. Somebody somewhere got feedback early and sorted it.
Instead of ending up with disgruntled members who just don' t attend again (the first R18 concours I saw had around 40 cars - this year had less than 20) would it not be better to have a discussion and keep people happy?
Roy
Surely the main reason for having a forum such as this is to extend the discussion and feedback on events and other matters to people who have previously been disenfranchised by either their location relative to the monthly meeting or their other commitments!
Also - is this really " dirty washing" - most of what I have read appears to be constructive comment which can be used for the benefit of the club in organising other events.
I have attended various events in the past organised by the PCGB and when I have read the subsequent reports in the Porsche Post have often believed the writers had been to a different event altogether! - up until now there has been no method of feedback which is readily accessible to members. It doesn' t have to be negative or destructive - it can be positive and constructive. A case in point - when I attended Highclere about 3 years ago the Saturday morning organisation was atrocious - nobody knew what was happening where to park etc - by Sunday this had all changed and the organisation was slick and professional. Somebody somewhere got feedback early and sorted it.
Instead of ending up with disgruntled members who just don' t attend again (the first R18 concours I saw had around 40 cars - this year had less than 20) would it not be better to have a discussion and keep people happy?
Roy
Helen Goff
No.1 Poster
READERS LETTERS IN PORSCHE POST MIGHT BE USEFUL.
Hi Roy
Please be assured that I totally agree that constructive comments and feedback should be encouraged and are a benefit to us all. What yourself and Mark put forward seems, on the face of it, to be very reasonable and worthy of further discussion for all concerned. I am not in a position to comment on what you and Mark experienced on the day, but I am aware that Mark has spoken to both Barry and David on the matter at a recent pub lunch and drive.
My main concern was about the damaging and sarcastic remarks that have been made on this particular discussion that could put a member off from either attending a Regional event or assisting in the organising of one! Fair and constructive criticism is one thing - nasty sarcasm should not be used under any circumstances.
My attempt to deflate the ' heated' discussion and remove it from public viewing was meant to take the unpleasantness off the forum, which is plain for us all to see. A healthy discussion at the next Regional monthly meeting, where interested members are gathered face to face can help overcome the problems that you and others have experienced. Indeed it may well make the 2004 Regional Concours event so much better for all concerned.
I am aware that both you and Mark would have to travel a great distance to attend the monthly meeting, so if you are unable to attend, why not ask another Regional member to present your question(s) on your behalf?
Perhaps the reason I am moved to get this away from the forum is that my wife and I have also been on the receiving end of some pretty unpleasant and unnecessary personal forum postings in the past, so I know the damage and hurt that they can bring. ( Not this forum I might add!! ).
We can ALL learn from a healthy debate and make our experience of being a member of PCGB so much better.
Regards,
Peter
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]
Please be assured that I totally agree that constructive comments and feedback should be encouraged and are a benefit to us all. What yourself and Mark put forward seems, on the face of it, to be very reasonable and worthy of further discussion for all concerned. I am not in a position to comment on what you and Mark experienced on the day, but I am aware that Mark has spoken to both Barry and David on the matter at a recent pub lunch and drive.
My main concern was about the damaging and sarcastic remarks that have been made on this particular discussion that could put a member off from either attending a Regional event or assisting in the organising of one! Fair and constructive criticism is one thing - nasty sarcasm should not be used under any circumstances.
My attempt to deflate the ' heated' discussion and remove it from public viewing was meant to take the unpleasantness off the forum, which is plain for us all to see. A healthy discussion at the next Regional monthly meeting, where interested members are gathered face to face can help overcome the problems that you and others have experienced. Indeed it may well make the 2004 Regional Concours event so much better for all concerned.
I am aware that both you and Mark would have to travel a great distance to attend the monthly meeting, so if you are unable to attend, why not ask another Regional member to present your question(s) on your behalf?
Perhaps the reason I am moved to get this away from the forum is that my wife and I have also been on the receiving end of some pretty unpleasant and unnecessary personal forum postings in the past, so I know the damage and hurt that they can bring. ( Not this forum I might add!! ).
We can ALL learn from a healthy debate and make our experience of being a member of PCGB so much better.
Regards,
Peter
[
]
Guest
New member
Peter
Thanks for your comments. Perhaps this is where different viewpoints need clarification but can you be specific about what you view as " nasty sarcasm" .
I can see many points of view here and some ' heated' comments but only one post which could possibly fall into the category you describe and I think that came from frustration and was personally not offended by it
Roy
Thanks for your comments. Perhaps this is where different viewpoints need clarification but can you be specific about what you view as " nasty sarcasm" .
I can see many points of view here and some ' heated' comments but only one post which could possibly fall into the category you describe and I think that came from frustration and was personally not offended by it
Roy
Hi Roy
Why not call me - phone number in past Porsche Posts and we can talk it over liesurely.
Cheers,
Peter
[]
Why not call me - phone number in past Porsche Posts and we can talk it over liesurely.
Cheers,
Peter
[
]
Guest
New member
ORIGINAL: Peter Bull
Please be assured that I totally agree that constructive comments and feedback should be encouraged and are a benefit to us all. [
Forums by their nature are about discussion.
As this is the Open Season for The Regional concours, what better time than this for discussion to take place.
As the 964 Register has had a fair amount of experience in organising fun concours, and winning a few as well. I am quite prepared to host (and moderate) a general discussion within the 964 Forum. Therefore taking the present discussion away from the personalities of a single Region, and the; he said- she said scenario. Hopefully producing some feed back from which we all can learn- Entrants, Spectators, and Organizers alike. After all we are all members of the same Club.
Guest
New member
Peter / Ken
I too think it is desirable to take this discussion further but agree that in order to do so we need to remove the specifics of the R18 event. I would like feedback (mainly from other members not an ' official' line) on the actual nature of the events we run.
To give you an idea where I am coming from here is a quote from a wax manufacturers website:
[FONT= Arial" ]Full Concours - Here everything on the car is judged, from seat stitching to brake hoses. Cleanliness and originality are keys to a winning car. It truly is exceptional for a car used as everyday transport to win such an event, although sometimes this happens.
Street Concours - Not so serious this one. Often the cars are in regular everyday use and are marked on general appearance. Indeed marks are often deducted for low mileage.![[FONT=verdana,geneva"]](/forum/styles/default/pcgb/space.gif ". [FONT=verdana,geneva\"]")
[/size]
and here is a comment I made before entering
[FONT= Arial" ]I' ll never enter a proper concours (I like driving it too much) but the street class is interesting to me as it contains ' real' cars (no offence meant)
Both of these echo my feelings for what I believe the club should be trying to achieve in a regional street concours context - a fun event to encourage (as Ken said previously) looking after cars. Like most other people I enjoy seeing the ' show' concours cars at the national event but personally I would have no desire to own one.
I cannot attend the regional meeting but if you would like to raise these points on my behalf Peter I would appreciate it.
I do recognise that I may be in a minority of one here but judging from the comments I have received (both on and off line) and the number of hits this particular topic has had, I believe there is real support for change.
Cheers
Roy
I too think it is desirable to take this discussion further but agree that in order to do so we need to remove the specifics of the R18 event. I would like feedback (mainly from other members not an ' official' line) on the actual nature of the events we run.
To give you an idea where I am coming from here is a quote from a wax manufacturers website:
[FONT= Arial" ]Full Concours - Here everything on the car is judged, from seat stitching to brake hoses. Cleanliness and originality are keys to a winning car. It truly is exceptional for a car used as everyday transport to win such an event, although sometimes this happens.
Street Concours - Not so serious this one. Often the cars are in regular everyday use and are marked on general appearance. Indeed marks are often deducted for low mileage.
[/size]and here is a comment I made before entering
[FONT= Arial" ]I' ll never enter a proper concours (I like driving it too much) but the street class is interesting to me as it contains ' real' cars (no offence meant)
Both of these echo my feelings for what I believe the club should be trying to achieve in a regional street concours context - a fun event to encourage (as Ken said previously) looking after cars. Like most other people I enjoy seeing the ' show' concours cars at the national event but personally I would have no desire to own one.
I cannot attend the regional meeting but if you would like to raise these points on my behalf Peter I would appreciate it.
I do recognise that I may be in a minority of one here but judging from the comments I have received (both on and off line) and the number of hits this particular topic has had, I believe there is real support for change.
Cheers
Roy
Helen Goff
No.1 Poster
all i can say is this whole issue of Concours has put me off the club and running a region all togeather,
I' m not interested in concours and i don' t really want to get involved with it.
I' m not interested in concours and i don' t really want to get involved with it.
Helen Goff
No.1 Poster
ken go to moderators page, i explain my feelings a bit more.dare not do so on here as i' d be ousted out of the club forever!!!
an event that last year only attracted 40-50 people out of a region of approx 650 members i personally would not call a roaring success.
our last club night got almost that many!!!
an event that last year only attracted 40-50 people out of a region of approx 650 members i personally would not call a roaring success.
our last club night got almost that many!!!
Helen Goff
No.1 Poster
i will if you will![]
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