Crash Test Dummies

[garyadams]

Hi All,

Did anyone watch the crash test dummies documentary on the testing of car crashes and how the crash dummies have evolved over the years. Anyway it showed the improvements manufactures have made over time with multiple air bags, retracting seatbelts etc and as the 944's are now all becoming over the age of 25 I started to wonder how safe are the cars?

I know the US has the air bag version where in the UK we just head butt the steering wheel or window, so does anyone have any official testing figures that Porsche may have carried out with the 944, back in the 80's early 90's

I'd be interested in having a read of what safety features the 944 has, as after seeing the documentary I'm wondering about changing to a safer model of car!

thanks

Gary

 

[Lowtimer]

Providing it is corrosion-free and with the seats and belts in good order, the passive safety of the 924 / 944 / 968 family is as good as anything built on a platform with its origin in the mid-1970s. If it is in good order then it is as safe now as it was then. Those of us who spent our formative years roaring around in Mark II Escorts, Capris, Lotus Elans and even '80s shells such at the Peugeot 205GTI, find something like a 944 to be reassuringly solid. But you do have to accept that the basis of the shell is a 38 year old design, and crashworthiness has been revolutionised over the last 15 years or so, mostly driven by the EURO-NCAP ratings regime which began in 1997. If that means a 924/944/968 worries you, I'd suggest looking at a second-generation Boxster, the 987 model which was announced in 2004 and went on sale in 2005. (The 986 Boxster pre-dates EURO-NCAP.)

 

[zcacogp]

Wot he sed ^^^^^

Essentially, any 944 is going to come off a lot worse in a crash than anything remotely modern - there's no two ways about it.

The best advice is to try and avoid crashing. Or, as said, buy a more modern car.


Oli.

 

[Cater_Racer]

Whilst I'm no expert (thankfully) a great deal of the improvements over the last 30 years have focused on making the car less dangerous for the object they hit. All these crumple zones and external lines are designed to ensure pedestrians survive and aren't thrown into oblivion.

I feel the strength of the 944 internal safety cell would stand up to comparison with many modern motors, the 944 design did envisage autobahn speeds of 100 MPH ++.

So I think in modern nanny state Britain your 944 will look after you very well even if you do leave your brains in bar!

Not sure the other guy will be so well cared for [&:]

 

[zcacogp]

This video will take 9 minutes to watch, and it does labour the point a little, but it's worth the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emtLLvXrrFs

The Volvo is a car of roughly the same vintage as our 944's - possibly a bit newer. And it's quite a lot bigger and heavier than a 944. The Renault is a 2004 model car, so even that is nearly 10 years old now. A similar comparison between a 944 and something designed and built in 2012 or so would not make for happy viewing at all.

It's a sobering thought.


Oli.

 

[Diver944]

The best thing going for the 944 is like all 1980's Porsche they are built like a brick sh**house.

Modern cars have all the latest crumple zone technology and multiple airbags so that even the lightest nudge ends up with the car being written off as it folds into almost nothing. A 944 is very strong and very rigid so will protect you in all but the very worst collisions.

Here is an incar video of my car hitting the crash barriers at over 70mph after a total brake failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUw0NCZqCGc

Okay its not a head on collison but it shows you how strong the shell is and I walked away with a bruised left elbow. The car cost £8k to repair [&o]

 

[craiginuk]

Geez Paul, what was the cause of brake failure? Surpised there was no swearing/panic screaming in the cockpit!

 

[Hairyarse]

Just watched your video Oli - makes you think about what can happen at 'just' 40mph! [&:]

 

[Hairyarse]

Paul, you must have needed new underpants after that!

 

[George Elliott]

Good Video Oli,

shows clearly the bluff that Volvo have pulled on the general public for many years.

OP - For genuine passenger car safety, the world benchmark is a Mercedes S-Class.

However, we should remember the 944 was developed to over come the shortcomings of the 911 all those years ago. And one of those shortcomings was front impact safety. The 911 964 and 993 ( much as I love 'em all) were not good with a fuel tank in the front and no significant structure for a proper whack. They were good in the area of sills, door posts, doors, but pillars and front chassis were questionable. The 996 fixed all that. (read about the ULSAB - ultra light steel auto body Porsche were commissioned to develop, with high strength steels and tailored blanks) That was when the steel industry were alarmed at the progress of aluminium with NSX, Audi A8 all of which came to nothing much.

When the 944 was developed it was intended to fix this shortcoming, and if you look at an accident damaged 944 you will be pleasantly surprised. They are significantly stronger than that bean tin Volvo. The chassis rails, door posts, sills, roof pillars are all vastly stronger, The engine / torque tube / transaxle are a further reinforcement to front impact. All this strength is quite crude and expensive to engineer which is why cars are now made with a Plastic front but carefully specified steel sections in the key body stress points.
An example of the 944 being ahead of its time are door side reinforcement bars. Volvo had a system call SIPS side impact protection system. That one in the video had it, and you can see the door is like something blue peter would make. A 944 Door is built like a Mercedes, look at the hinge mounts, ever seen a 944 door drop (like a 25,000 mile Cortina) - nor me.

If you are worried about a 944 safety, take a look at a few damaged ones.

NCAP have done an incredible job, the long shallow angle windscreen pillar (with massive blind spot) is a direct result. It put the Metro off the road very quickly.

George
944t

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Having seen two rolled 944s, and some serious shunts like Smiffy's, I'd be fairly confident a 944 is a safe car for it's age, and probably not too bad compared to anything up to pretty new cars.

I remember the Top Gear feature on the Discovery, and how bad that was for the driver, and the Voyager has a terrible record for crash safety. Size isn't everything, and as has been said, modern safety seems to be either active preventative features, like the orgasmatron lane-departure seats, or pedestrian-based.

I'd say that driving standards and car maintenance would affect accident consequences more than changing the 944 for something else. Remember that, along with improved safety, they've removed most driver input with all the electronic systems controlling cars now. A good thing for many people, but I think it leads to a complacency, as people feel too safe and concentrate less. [8|]

 

[944s2]

Ah the great I'm only alive because I was in a Volvo myth

All cars built (of similar age) meet same standards

Yes some are better than others but Volvo not as much better than everyone else that Volvo would have you think.

Read a few time the more modern Renaults were probably safest cars on road but the did not shout it from rooftops like Volvo

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Read a few time the more modern Renaults were probably safest cars on road but the did not shout it from rooftops like Volvo

Having spent a lot of time in a G-reg 740 turbo, I'd say it certainly felt safer than any 1990 Renault ever looked! I'd suspect that the Volvo would have annihilated a Fuego, 19, or early Clio...[&:]

Whilst I agree that Volvo built a reputaition on advertising as much as actual facts, they were pioneering in the way they investigated crashes in Sweden to see what could be improved. I'd also agree that Mercedes should have more recognition than they get for their top-down safety features, that move from the S class as they become more cost-effective.

 

[944 man]

The 924 drew heavily from Porsches work on a crash safety design concept, but its name and number escapes me at present, sorry. Its because of this, I think, that the 924/944/968 is still a reasonably safe car in which to have an accident.

Unfortunately I cant find any reference to this on the internet and I cant remember where I read it (20yrs ago). I can remember the photos of the development vehicles in red and oragne though, so it may come back to me. If I can remember the concept studys name then Google will eventually give it all up...

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

The best thing going for the 944 is like all 1980's Porsche they are built like a brick sh**house.

Modern cars have all the latest crumple zone technology and multiple airbags so that even the lightest nudge ends up with the car being written off as it folds into almost nothing. A 944 is very strong and very rigid so will protect you in all but the very worst collisions.

Here is an incar video of my car hitting the crash barriers at over 70mph after a total brake failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUw0NCZqCGc

Okay its not a head on collison but it shows you how strong the shell is and I walked away with a bruised left elbow. The car cost £8k to repair [&o]

Not nice Paul, but this is what a car crashed at Snetterton (at the Bomb Hole before the 70s redesign) with total commitment looks like:

The drive miraculously limped away with a broken ankle!

 

[Cater_Racer]

Good video Oli, I think I'll make my kids watch it.

As you know I raced Caterhams for 20 years and switched to the 944 when my son Tom started racing with me. Tom did two years in the Caterham but I was enjoying it less and less watching him disappear down the pit lane in a car that offered little to no protection in the event of "a big one".

I'm much more confident with the 944, and there's lots of anecdotal evidence that they are strong.

A race track is a much safer place than the British roads and with six point harnesses, internal cages, plumbed in fire extinguishers, electric cut-outs etc.

I think for a road car you would be much better off in a VW UP, so the warnings about checking your safety belts, and seat anchorages is very sound advice.

BTW, I bought my youngest son a VW UP.

 

[944s2]

Pauil I did say later Renaults late 90's

Mind you did have head on in a R14 at 30mph in 1980 everything from bulkhead forward renewed rest of car fine
Dougie

 

[George Elliott]

The 924 drew heavily from Porsches work on a crash safety design concept,

Not sure if this is it or a follow-on testing Simon - see "www.porsche-924 crash testing" on google.

very good crash testing for the day, and there is nothing I can see for the air cooled cars.....

this was an era when Ralph Nader was making a name for himself, bit like NCAP but a generation earlier.

Look how the 924 deforms in the right places

George
944t

 

[WBray]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

The 924 drew heavily from Porsches work on a crash safety design concept,

Not sure if this is it or a follow-on testing Simon - see "www.porsche-924 crash testing" on google.

very good crash testing for the day, and there is nothing I can see for the air cooled cars.....

this was an era when Ralph Nader was making a name for himself, bit like NCAP but a generation earlier.

Look how the 924 deforms in the right places

George
944t

Seen this earlier is this what you are referring to?
http://www.924rougeindien.fr/?cat=12

 

[944 man]

Interesting, but the safety study wasnt 924-shaped. I think that it was a nineties magazine article and I remember that it had a Porsche designed airport tender in it, too.