Disc and pad combination

[Hilux]

Before you all start, I have searched but have inconclusive data.

My front o/s pad squealed badly so I decide to investigate and check both front brakes as the car recently seemed harder to push out of the garage and also seemed to resist rolling on a slight downslope in neutral and brakes off.

`kin `ell, what a job. It took a whole day as the callipers suffer from `plate lift` and the pads were wedged in.

This meant that the pads were jammed in and were not relaxing properly (I reckon it was worth another couple of bhp at Weltmeister []) When I finally got them out the o/s squeeky one had transfered the inner pad material onto the lower part of the disc and the pad is indented at the bottom []

Last autumn JZM stated that the discs were nearing their limit. The discs have about 1mm wear each side.

To summarise, the pad deposits mean I need new discs and I`ll need to replace the pads.

I have spoken at length to people and I'm told the solid discs are fine and dont warp, drilled discs crack and warp etc etc

I feel that grooved solid discs are the way forward with better pads.

What combo`s are you all using bearing in mind I`m an ex Westfield/Ginetta track star so brake late and cooked them at Silverstone last time out.

I used to use EBC green stuff on my old kit cars but pagid and mintex keep coming up. The EBC`s used to wear out the discs (but discs are cheap) and were superb in lighter cars. What about Portefield as one 951 I tested when I was looking to buy had cross drilled discs with Porterfield pads and was superb.

 

[Diver944]

I've always used solid disks and OEM pads (Pagids from GSFcarparts) on my Turbo using track tyres and I too am a too late braker but I've never ever had a problem with overheating. I do have ducting from the M030 bumper holes to the back of the disk.

I tried EBC greens when they first came out and found no difference (apart from no dust []) but they did not last very long with track use and seemed to score the disks. Later versions seem to be better for this.

My recommendation would be a freshly refurbished calliper (or new ones) and then solid disks with OEM pads. The reasonably big blacks on our Turbos are massively oversized for up to 300bhp IMHO, they did originate from the 330bhp 928 which is 200kg heavier.

 

[sawood12]

I run cross drilled Zimmermans and EBC red stuff ceramics up front and currently have OEM on the rear. I have not suffered any warping or cracking problems and I seem to remember from other posts that it is primarily the solid Zimmerman runners that have experianced warping problems. Mine being an early turbo doesn't have the 928S4 calipers up front but I had no problems with brake fade or braking full stop at Donington recently - the EBC pads up front seem to work better the hotter they get. My only criticism of my current set up is that is seems to lack feel or bite. I don't know if is a caliper ralated issue or something to do with my pad/disc combination. I've got some stainless steel braided brake hoses to fit so hopefully that might make a difference as my rubber flexi brake hoses are 19ys old now.

I was considering running Mintex or Pagid pads next time round to see if I can get a bit more feel from the brakes but I like the cross drilled discs and they are a bit cheaper than OEM solids so I will probably stick with them.

 

[lali]

Cross drilled Brembo discs and Mintex 1155's with ATE racing blue fluid. Its taken me 5-6 Bedfords, 3 Spa's 2 'rings 3 Donningtons and an Oulton park to crack the discs ( a little ) and I'm still on the same set of Pads.

Should I be braking harder? I know that a couple of the 944 guys in the Club championship run more than one season on a set of pads.

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: Hilux

`kin `ell, what a job. It took a whole day as the callipers suffer from `plate lift` and the pads were wedged in.

I take it you're going to sort out the caliper plates before you replace your pads as you'll just suffer the same problem. I think Promax does a pretty cost effective exchange service for calipers where you replace yours with refurbed ones.

 

[Hilux]

My recommendation would be a freshly refurbished calliper (or new ones)

Not sure on that one []

To counter `plate lift` simply file off/taper the top leading and trailing corners of the pads and the pads sit nice and snug with a little movement that frees them up and allows them to relax when off the brakes [][8D] Only a mm or two, cures the problem and saves loads a money. They are an interference fit while being installed but once most of the pad is past the plate they drop in lovely and with a smidgin of coppergrease are now fine as the wheel rotates as it should and the car is now free of brake bind.[]

I liked the EBC greenstuff as the brake dust is a lot less and I agree with you that they grind the discs away but I never had them groove a disc.

 

[Hilux]

I take it you're going to sort out the caliper plates before you replace your pads as you'll just suffer the same problem

See above. Now cured but I agree that I will probably take up the Promax deal when I rebuild the braking system and replace all the suspension this winter.

Note to all: Please do NOT mention the above to my wife under any circumstances as she is thinking of her new kitchen when we extend our house later this year. She has already been out sizing up kitchen appliances and crockery and we are still awaiting planning permission........................sheesh [&o][&o]

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: Hilux

To counter `plate lift` simply file off/taper the top leading and trailing corners of the pads

Yes that works as a temporary fix, but all you are really doing is giving the plates even more room to lift into. Check them regularly or eventually you won't be able to remove the pads and when you do remove/replace the callipers you won't be able to reuse the pads. They will now rattle around as they have been ground too small [&:]

This has happened to my rears in only two months []. The garage ground a little off the pads to give me some time but when I checked them today, the plates have lifted more and they are stuck fast.

I also changed my front pads to Greens today and they have finally cured the awful squealing I have had ever since the pads were changed. I revise my recommendation:

Don't ever buy Textar pads. My old set were the first Textars I have ever used in 8 years and multiple pad sets and they squeal like that fat bloke from Deliverance !

 

[dlknight]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

I also changed my front pads to Greens today and they have finally cured the awful squealing I have had ever since the pads were changed. I revise my recommendation:

Don't ever buy Textar pads. My old set were the first Textars I have ever used in 8 years and multiple pad sets and they squeal like that fat bloke from Deliverance !

I also had squealing from my Textar pads, they seem to have got alot quieter now though after a few thousand miles bedding in.

Dave K.

 

[Hilux]

Yes that works as a temporary fix, but all you are really doing is giving the plates even more room to lift into

Not if you lift them and use an engineers scribe to remove the detritus between plate and caliper and insert coppergrease [] although this is a temp fix but at least it helps prevent the catalyst, water, getting in there for a while.

I`ve always rated green stuff. I`ve tried Mintex and Pagid but felt Pagids lacked feel and Mintex always squealed unless real hot admittedly on much lighter cars where you had to work them hard to maintain temps.

Red stuff needs to get and stay real hot to bite. Possibly why Scott is experiencing poor feel when stomping hard.

I`ll try green with OEM rears and if they are worked too hard go to green rear and red front.

I still like crossdrilled but have heard they can crack but I also heard that Porsche cast the holes in situ thereby maintaining the metalgrain??

Grooved (anyone do grooved discs for 944`s) as cross drilling or grooving reduces the gaseous layer on the pad surface when the resin boils (fade)

 

[sawood12]

The feel of my brakes didn't seem to improve when I had my track session and i'm sure they would have been getting pretty warm - maybe not warm enough though. I'm wondering if it is either my 19yr old rubber brake hoses bulging a bit under the hydraulic pressure (hopefully my SS braided hoses will help) or maybe (unlikely) the calipers actually flexing and bowing out under the pressure. Not sure how robust the early turbo calipers are compared to the more bulky 250 turbo or big black calipers.

One thing I have noticed recently is that the speed my brake pedal returns after pressing it is quite slow. It certainly doesn't maintian any pressure against my foot when I release the pressure on the pedal. Is there a spring on the brake pedal that returns the pedal that might be a bit weak?

 

[maverick996]

I have the cross drilled on the fronts, with sebro on the back and EBC greenstuff all round, and I have SS braided hoses. I am impressed with the braking performance of the current setup, but if I was to go on the track I would definitely consider the Red stuff, as I did notice a bit of fade and emptiness, after taking my mate out for a bit of a wild experience in which he nearly left stains on my seat.

 

[carlmthompson]

ORIGINAL: maverick996

after taking my mate out for a bit of a wild experience in which he nearly left stains on my seat.

Did you drive fast as well[]

Scott - I think there is a spring that helps the pedal up, but it's mainly hydraulic pressure (some correct me if 'm wrong). I would check for leaks, bulging hoses, or you might have a failing cylinder somewhere. You may also need the brakes bleeding depending on how long the fluid's been in there.

You can't mess around with brakes - anybody who's ever known the feeling of the pedal hitting the floor while the cars not stopping can vouch for that (any ex- mini metro drivers?)

 

[Fen]

Stick with genuine disks would be my advice. I have heard enough about warping Zimmermann disks not to go with them and apocryphally the drilled ones crack (though rick has some that are OK on WUF). They also suffer rusty bells and they aren't hugely cheaper than OE.

OE disks have a 2 year warranty and though mine have surface cracks in a few places they are still within tolerance and it's probably down to me not cooling them enough at the end of a session.

All that said I might very well get Performance Friction rotors next time after looking at a set at Weltmeister. I use their 97 compound pads which are superbly feelsome and fade resistant, but if you don't want dust or squealing then get something else.

EBC greens make just as much black dust as any other pad these days so I wouldn't bother with them.

 

[Hilux]

Stick with genuine disks would be my advice. I have heard enough about warping Zimmermann disks not to go with them and apocryphally the drilled ones crack (though rick has some that are OK on WUF). They also suffer rusty bells and they aren't hugely cheaper than OE.

OE disks have a 2 year warranty and though mine have surface cracks in a few places they are still within tolerance and it's probably down to me not cooling them enough at the end of a session.

Sorry Fen, are you talking solid OEM or drilled (cast holes)

 

[Fen]

mik had had solid Zimms warp as have others. I can't think of hearing first hand of problems with the drilled ones (hence saying "apocryphally"). All genuine disks have a 2 year warranty as I understand it.

 

[944turboS]

Just had the car serviced & have been advised to change the front pads soon. Where do you buy your EBC Green Stuff pads from?
Also need to renew the handbrake springs & probably the shoes while I'm in there where is the best source for these?

 

[Diver944]

I got mine from http://www.k300performance.co.uk/

Tell them you're from PCGB forum and you'll get a good discount (it's run by Stuart Cookson the 968 Reg Sec)

 

[Fen]

I'd say go to Stu at K300 also for EBC pads, but I'd still say don't bother with greens having seen a new formula set in action dusting up rims.

 

[944turboS]

Which pads would you recommend?
I was thinking greens from re-reading previous threads.