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DIY Clutch on S2

zcacogp

New member
Chaps,

My S2 has just shy of 150k miles on it. And I think it's on the original clutch. (There is no record anywhere in the cars history of it having been changed.) There are no problems with it, but I am thinking seriously about changing it as a preventative measure. (It is an only car, used for getting to work and back, and I don't like the thought of it stranding me by the side of the road one morning/evening, and needing to get the work done in a hurry as well as finding a courtesy/hire car.) I know there is an inspection port on the bellhousing which can be used to measure the amount of wear left on the clutch plates, and I will be doing this when the weather is a bit better, but ...

What is involved in changing the clutch? I will be doing as much research on here as possible, but if people could give me pointers that would be appreciated. Questions are:

1. I'll be using the Clarks Garage and Porsche Manual guides mainly; does anyone know of any others ones out there which are also good?

2. Clutch type - I have a memory that there are spring-centred clutches and rubber-centred clutches, and that the spring-centred ones are better. Is this so? What is the part number of the spring-centred ones? Are they more expensive?

3. What am I likely to break getting it apart? I seem to recall that the crank angle sensor is pretty delicate and often comes apart when you remove it. Given that I will be doing this job over a weekend (with some help from friends), I want to have any parts I am likely to need to hand at the time, so what else should I be ordering?

4. Are there any specialist tools needed? Specialist being other than a good set of sockets and open-ended spanners, triple-squares for the CV joints, jacks, levers and swear words. Oh, and possibly some beer for when it is all done.

5. What else is worth doing 'while you are in there'? I am tempted by some of the shorter gearshift modifications, and of course will be cleaning and lubricating the linkage.

Thanks for any help you can offer ... If I do it then I'll do a decent photographic write-up and post it somewhere for others to read if they are interested ...


Oli.

ETA: Another question ... how long will it take? I know this is a 'how-long-is-a-piece-of-string' question but give me an idea ... someone ... please!
 
Oli
Aren't there things on your car that need fixing rather than worry about something that is perfectly OK? [;)]

If the car has done mainly motorway miles, then there's no reason for the clutch to be very worn.

as for "while you are in there" jobs - how about fitting a turbo? [:D]
 
Ed,

Good point. It gets juddery in traffic, when hot, and I'm told that is a sign of a clutch starting to give up. But you're right - I need to check the inspection port before going ahead with buying stuff.

I don't know what sort of driving the car has had before I bought it. The last 30k miles have been done by me, and have been a mix of town and long distance work. But 150k miles on a clutch ... how long do they go on for?

I follow the mantra of never building a car you can buy. So I won't be fitting a turbo, and neither will I be buying one, thanks! [;)]


Oli.
 
ORIGINAL: zcacogp

So I won't be fitting a turbo, and neither will I be buying one, thanks! [;)]


Oli.

Never say never! ;)

I always believed replacing the clutch even on an S2 was a pig of a job taking a good few hours to drop the exhaust and other bits. I know it cost the thick end of £1k from a specialist when I had it done on my S2 and most of that was the obvious labour so definitely savings to be had if you have the time. It's not something I'd relish doing myself but I guess it can't be impossible. There was a very colourful episode of 'The Garage' where they replaced a clutch on a 944s, made for entertaining viewing as it took them something like 3 goes to get it right. Worth searching it out if you can on one of the many Sky channels (www.locatetv.com is useful for this kind of thing).
 
Not a terrible job just long winded and awkward. Hardest bit is getting the transaxle in and out (not really a one man job), afer that its plain sailing (ish).
Rear main seal and spigot bearing whilst your in there.
Renew any bolts/nuts you undo including flywheel bolts when you hopefully change the rear main seal.

 
I admire you for having a go Oli - this would probably be one of the few jobs I'd shy away from, not least because it's a pig to do without a proper lift. Good luck.
 
*BigSigh* What's the spigot then, Paul? (I thought it was a name for a type of tap.)

Ian .... erm, thanks. I think. Thanks for the good wishes. Try not to scare me too much, eh? Thanks! [:eek:] (And thanks very much for the relay - it arrived yesterday, you may have got my message.)


Oli.
 
I did get your message - you're very welcome.

I don't mean to put you off with your endeavour (and I should stress I haven't done a clutch on a 944) but it looks bleedin' hard. Mind you, a photo-story would be useful for a lot of people I suspect.
 
The bearing that goes in the end of the crank is what porsche call a spigot bearing (pilot bearing?), it doesn't come with the clutch kit.
Forgot to add it took me two days 'ish to do the clutch with some help from my brother.
I took it apart then ordered parts so work was spread over a couple of weekends giving me time to clean parts and re-grease driveshafts.
Clean stuff is so much easier to work on.












 
Paragon do an extra kit with all the little bearings, bolts and seals you'd want to replace while doing the clutch:

http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/944cak.htm

I helped Tony F change his Turbo clutch last Autumn and as long as you have got the car nicely airborne over a pit (or lift) then it is straightforward if a little long winded and simply a case of unbolting many things to get to the clutch. It is simpler on an S2 as you don't have to worry about the wastegate and crossover piping so should be well within your capabilities Oli as you are one of the more mechanically active among us [:)]

You will need a second pair of hands when lowering the gearbox out of the way (though Richy S did it by himself on jackstands in his garage [&:])

I plan to do my S2 clutch this summer as it is approaching 190k miles now and I'd rather do it before it fails
 
I plan to do my S2 clutch this summer as it is approaching 190k miles now and I'd rather do it before it fails

If it ain't broke.....[&:]

I'm not even going to start the "how many miles will a clutch do" discussion, but I am wondering why you're considering it as preventative? Unless you're uprating the engine you don't normally do a HG, for example. I'd have thought that a clutch was a "soft" failure, it lets you know it's going. Far more sensible to renew things like hydraulics or electrics, that are also nearing the end of their useful life if original and will fail totally. I've seen a lot of cars here stranded with a slave cylinder gone, but I can't think of a case of a clutch that's let go without plenty of advance warning?
 
ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

a clutch was a "soft" failure, it lets you know it's going.

Exactly. It's been feeling 'different' for a while and compared to the new one on my Turbo it is positively horrible.

It's my wifes daily driver and if it does fail on her it's going to be a lot of hassle and would need to be up and running straight away and for that read expensive Indy labour charges. If I can plan to do it at my leisure over a weekend then the only cost is the parts and the rewards are a lovely smooth clutch and a load off my mind [:)]
 
You might want to replace the gearbox mount and of course treat/repaint every area against rust.
Replace the aluminium tape that covers the lid on the torque tube in case it has peeled off - they often do.


 
Lots of good advice, and Ed beat me to my "while you're in there" suggestion. Boo.

Only thing I'd add is my S2 coupe's rubber centre broke up without warning. It didn't dump me at the roadside though maybe that was because I was so p'd off when it did it that I abused it for a few minutes (not only verbally) and it broke up further and moved out of the way so allwoing the clutch to engage/disengage. There was just a little [8|] backlash moving between power and overrun afterwards and it was very harsh when on power, but it drove.
 
ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Ed,

Good point. It gets juddery in traffic, when hot, and I'm told that is a sign of a clutch starting to give up. But you're right - I need to check the inspection port before going ahead with buying stuff.
-snip-
Oli.

I would be careful with the throttle as clutch till you have changed it- those are the classic signs on the rubber cushion starting to break up and become weak on the S2. My S2 was like this at 80,000 miles and went within a year. It is just starting to get juddery when hot in traffic now at 165K- so I need to do this job within the next year or so.

Avoid 6000rpm standing starts and red line gearchanges and be very smooth with the throttle and it should last for a while.
 
I'd actually suggest it might have been coincidence that your rubber centre went after a preiod of juddering, or at least that the juddering was a separate issue that accelerated the failure fo the rubber centre.

I say that because there isn't a lot of rubber and I don't think it could gradually fail over a lengthy period. That is backed up by my experience of sudden catastrophic failure, though I would imagine it could fail a little more slowly than mine also. Over the course of (dependent on level of clutch engagement / disengagement) a day or two / 10-100 miles would be my guess though.
 
Chaps,

Thanks for your comments. Paul S - it sounds like you are in a similar boat to me - a clutch that works but doesn't inspire confidence, in a car which needs to be reliable. I sympathise - and it must be worse if it's your better half using the car.

Mine judders when hot, but always has done. As in, for the last 30k miles (since I bought the car.) I am told that it is the symptoms of a clutch that is dying, but the fact that it has soldiered on so long makes me wonder. (If it does pack up, I shall simply have to abuse it Fen-style!) Having said that, I do tend to be pretty gentle with clutches so I could be eeking out what remains in terms of it's life.

Paul, thanks for the link to the kit from Paragon. That'll be another £100, probably more, when you have included the postage and import duties. Hmmmm.

What does the spigot bearing do? In the end of the crankshaft? Not the clutch release bearing?

Time: It'll be me and a friend, with possibly one or two other people around as well, over a weekend. Sounds like it should be possible.

I'm a little short on suggestions as to which clutch to buy - rubber centre, or spring centre, and what's the difference?

And what about the crank angle sensor?


Oli.
 
ORIGINAL: zcacogp
Mine judders when hot, but always has done. As in, for the last 30k miles (since I bought the car.) I am told that it is the symptoms of a clutch that is dying, but the fact that it has soldiered on so long makes me wonder.

Mine did the same and upon removal the friction material on the clutch disc was very close to the rivets, but luckily the flywheel was not damaged. The rubber centre was intact.
As far as I know only the spring-centred clutch disc is now available for the S2 - this is what I am running now. In my case it has made for significantly more tansmission noises than with the rubber centred-disc but I got used to it.

Don't bother with replacing the crank sensors if they work fine. If they ever fail you can always replace them later.
 

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