DMS

[Clewsey]

Has anybody with a GenII (S or non-S) or even perhaps a Gen I 997 considered/undergone a DMS upgrade? They seem to have a good name/reputation and the reviews in the various journals always look positive but I'm still left wondering if it's something worth doing.

If anybody has, I'd be interested in getting views on the difference both on road and track. Obviously, being stealth, it shouldn't be picked up by diagnostic equipment......

Cheers,
Simon

 

[okellyt]

Simon

I had the Revo remap done but also looked at the DMS option both are very good. One key factor for these two manufacturers is that they are unofficially supported by Porsche GMBH - the three share a lot of info with each other.

Having the remap done can still be seen as a breach of your warranty however. Happily off the record a few OPC's indicated to me that they were not going to go out of there way to find the software changes with a warranty claim, so basically unless you lunch the engine and GMBH want all the software to investigate it you might get away with it []

Both manufacturers use Porsche's software and simply change the parameters. They both keep within published ranges from Porsche for engine safety. So, in theory there should be no additional strain on the engine and associated parts. As it was put to me, anything that goes wrong with your engine was going to happen anyway.

Power gains are modest 15-20hp max. In reality you'd probably need a high performance exhaust to get 20hp or more. However the point of this upgrade is drive ability not top end power. The software optimise's the car to take advantage of European/British quality fuel (it will still run on 95 RON happily) but it runs best on Super Unleaded. It also optimise's various factors in the car for performance over fuel economy and emissions efficiency.

So what does this mean - the car will be more responsive and can be made much more responsive to throttle inputs, the power curve is smoothed out some what so in gear acceleration and pick up is more linear. Once you get used to a remap you'll realise that there are flat spots in the normal cars acceleration that have been cured, so the car feels a lot faster on the road.

The most noticeable change will be how much more sensitive the cars throttle is to your pedal inputs, it becomes much more of a sports car than cruiser. The one down side is the revs flair and die easily so you will stall the car a bit more often, to cure it just needs to be revved a bit harder[8D] The upside is the engines response to your inputs becomes so much more immediate.

So good products, one of the cheapest ways for making your car feel a lot faster (it will also be faster), completely reversible. Both manufactures I believe do an optional dongle you can plug in to turn the changes off before you drop the car into your dealers (so the software is standard when its serviced).

If I bought another Porsche I would certainly get another remap. The question would be when. i.e. Do I let the first 2 years warranty run before a remap, nah I'd probably last 6 months and then have it done.[]

 

[Peely]

I wasn't aware that DMS did a dongle for reversing the maps ?

 

[okellyt]

Revo definately do, not so sure about DMS.

 

[Dylan1]

linda`s bmw was as you say tom,transformed[]
190bhpto 270 and 400to 530torque feathering the throttle produces big response and less fuel usage.

 

[299TKO]

Hi Olley,

So with the Revo map you get a 15-20hp upgrdade for around £599? thats a fraction of the X51 price, is there any differnce in driveability?

 

[Gary C]

ORIGINAL: dyllan

linda`s bmw was as you say tom,transformed[]
190bhpto 270 and 400to 530torque feathering the throttle produces big response and less fuel usage.

Are you not worried the effect such a big torque increase will have on the gearbox ?

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: dazzpowder

Hi Olley,

So with the Revo map you get a 15-20hp upgrdade for around £599? thats a fraction of the X51 price, is there any differnce in driveability?

They are both quite different - the X51 is a major overhaul of the top end of the engine, sports exhaust and some sundry parts, apparently if done from new it includes and upgraded clutch. I found the x51 upgrade gave the car quite a different character from stock, the Revo re-map improves the cars drive ability but doesn't change the basic engine/cars characteristics if that makes sense. So its like comparing apples and oranges.

The Revo remap on top of the x51 was fun, it gave the car a wedge more in gear grunt and as I said previously the engine became much more responsive to throttle inputs - making steering the car on the throttle a joy. The x51 upgrade raises the rev limit but changes where the car pulls best to lower down the rev range - it does its best work from 3k revs to 6.5k, so its quite different form the standard C2S engine which loves to be reved to the limit. The Revo remap further enhances this giving it more grunt (in gear pull) from about 3500rpm through to 6.5k alongside more responsive throttle.

The Revo remap also mitigates a few flat spots in the engines power/torque curves so it helps the car pull more consistently through the rev range

If I had a standard C2S now and wanted to tinker with it the first two thing I would do would be a Revo engine remap.

The next step would be the K&N induction kit which makes the car sound awesome as well as giving a significant slug more power and a bit more torque. However by combining the revo and K&N you will need to have upgraded the brakes.

 

[299TKO]

Magic okellyt, thanks for the reply. Is the Revo re-map better than most? I ask as I'm always dubious of tuning companies that farm out there software. I was also looking at west tuning but he doesn't do the fob to reverse the re-map.
Thanks again

 

[okellyt]

Revo and DMS seem to be regarded as the standard High Quality re-map. As put earlier in the thread the Germans based subsids do talk a lot to Porsche GMBH. Others like Cargraphic do bespoke remaps which are high quality but really intended to go with their other modifications (I think the same is true of West Tuning).

The advantage of DMS and Revo is you can always go to a Cargraphic or West bespoke remap later on, if the modding bug hits.

Revo do a try before you buy - a 5 hour remap. it runs for 5 hours and turns itself off. If you are thinking about the remap it might be worth trying this out. I have forgotten how much it costs but it used to be quite cheap and would be refunded against the cost of the full remap any way.

 

[299TKO]

Thanks Okellyt,

I was saving my pennies for the X51, I really didn't think a remap was worth anything on a non turbo but what you describe is exactly what I'm after more responsiveness and general driveability in town. I'm off to speak to Revo.

Thnx again

 

[okellyt]

Let me know how you get on and what you think of the remap.

Ta

 

[299TKO]

popped down to AMD today 4Hrs later they couldn't complete the job to their satisfaction as there was no change in the low end which is exactlty where I would like to see a change. Something to do with the wrong localised file and they couldn't get a hold of anyone in Revo. Back Monday lets see....

 

[299TKO]

Had it completed today, the car reacts so much quicker to the throttle it really takes off, spent most of the drive home in traffic so wont know the whole picture until I play some more.

 

[Clewsey]

Interesting, keen to get a view of the findings overall I may be doing the same.....

Thanks everybody for the comments/views on the thread.

Cheers

 

[bobfair]

My experience of DMS with my Gen 1 Turbo was reasonably favourable and their exhaust certainly improved the sound my car made and I was impressed with the care they took when fitting it. I havnt heard anyone moan about DMS but I have heard a lot of compliments and recommendations.

One word of warning if you have a remap though. Although DMS claim that the OPC can not see the reamp they can easily overide it. So if you have a remap and your car goes in for a service if the OPC does an update the ECU can easily be put back into its original settings by that update which is somewhat frustrating. DMS take the ECU chip out of the car to reprogramme it but the OPC simply plugs the car in. I speak from experience.

You also need to consider your insurance position, in my case my insurer asked for a higher premium for the modification whilst I think I am right in saying that Alexs did not

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: bobfair

My experience of DMS with my Gen 1 Turbo was reasonably favourable and their exhaust certainly improved the sound my car made and I was impressed with the care they took when fitting it. I havnt heard anyone moan about DMS but I have heard a lot of compliments and recommendations.

One word of warning if you have a remap though. Although DMS claim that the OPC can not see the reamp they can easily overide it. So if you have a remap and your car goes in for a service if the OPC does an update the ECU can easily be put back into its original settings by that update which is somewhat frustrating. DMS take the ECU chip out of the car to reprogramme it but the OPC simply plugs the car in. I speak from experience.

You also need to consider your insurance position, in my case my insurer asked for a higher premium for the modification whilst I think I am right in saying that Alexs did not

For a Turbo at least you can tell if an OPC has remapped your ECU as the boost drops down 0.2bar! I was completely upfront with my OPC and told them everything I have had done. The remap made the engine feel much smoother/healthier so I was not worried about the engine blowing up and my OPC charging me a fortune for a new one.

Bob is correct, I am with AON since I bought the car and they havent increased my premiums even 1p with each mod I have added. The only thing they verified was that I had the mods installed by a recognized Porsche tuner shop (Parr etc) and that the parts I was changing to were equal to or better quality than the factory parts I was replacing.

 

[okellyt]

I agree with Alex, as per my original note, if the OPC look carefully they can find it.

For a normally aspirated engine the re-map is more subtle and harder to spot. I was honest with my OPC and they have looked and admitted they couldn't find the changes on a relatively cursory check.

In the end I went for the Revo purely because you can buy a dongle that stores up to three configurations. You can then reset the car to normal to drop into the OPC for updates and when you change back to the Revo settings it incorporates the OPC changes except for where a parameter change conflicts with the Revo remap. I found Revo and DMS very similar otherwise.

The other nice thing with the Revo is the ability to go to stage 2 on a normally aspirated engine if you fit the Milltek exhaust. This gives the car a fantastic and loud sound along side dyno gains of approx 30hp and a massive wedge of extra torque. The extra horses run most of the way through the rev range so it feels much quicker on the road. You can tune for a higher max power but loose a lot of the mid range power and torque gains, which sort of defeats the point. The Milltek exhaust is also substantially lighter than the OEM sports exhaust, so your saving about 12kgs.

 

[299TKO]

Hey Okkellyt, would I get much more from the Revo map if I added the OPC sports exhaust? I thought the exhaust was more of a soundtrack unless married to the X51 Kit.

 

[garyw]

I don't believe the OPC sports exhaust offered any power increases, just more aural excitement..

garyw