HI EVERY ONE. I OWN A 1986 944T IN RED WITH 156000 MILES CREAM HALF LEATHER AND PORSCHE LOGO ON SEATS. IT IN GOOD CONDITION WITH A LITTLE RUST ON ONE WING AND BACK WHEEL ARCH. I HAVENT OWNED IT LONG BUT HAVE GOT BILLS OVER £3500 FROM PROMAX, INCLUDING NEW FUEL LINES, CALIPERS AND TYERS. I BOUGHT THE CAR FOR THE ODD TRACK DAY AND WEEKENDS. KNOW I NOW MORE ABOUT THE CARS I WAS THINKING OF SELLING MINE AND BUYING A LATER MODLE MAYBE WITH THE MO30 UPGRADE. I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY PROMAX THAT I HAVE EARLY HUBS AND WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE THEM TO UPGRADE THE BRAKES AND SUSPENSION. WOULD THE LATER CAR BE BETTER FOR THE TRACK OR SHOULD I KEEP MINE? AND HOW MUCH WOULD I GET FOR MINE? ANY THOUGHTS ON WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO NOT SPEND A FORTUNE WOULD BE GREAT. THANKS
DO I SELL MY 944T?
- Thread starter RUMS944
- Start date
Diver944
Active member
Personally, I could not sell a car after spending all that money to get it right, you'll not get the money back and you'll probably spend more getting the replacement car up to the same standard.
M030 is good suspension but it's not the be all and end all when it comes to tracking a 944. Even if its been freshly rebuilt, its still an 18 year old design and is not a patch on new KW suspension which I believe will fit your car.
If you also wanted M030 (or larger) brakes then you will need a radial adaptor mount to attach the later callipers to your hubs
M030 is good suspension but it's not the be all and end all when it comes to tracking a 944. Even if its been freshly rebuilt, its still an 18 year old design and is not a patch on new KW suspension which I believe will fit your car.
If you also wanted M030 (or larger) brakes then you will need a radial adaptor mount to attach the later callipers to your hubs
I would confirm exactly what year model the car is. If it's an '89 you should definitely have the bigger hubs/brakes. If someone has told you that it has the smaller ones there seems to be something a bit fishy going on? If you have the bigger ones then I would concur with Paul and go for something more contemporary in the suspension dept.
sawood12
New member
I am in a similar boat to you. I bought my turbo before I really knew what I wanted to use it for and didn't appreciate the differences between the years. I got an '87 and originally thought i'd keep it for one year/18months to 'scratch the itch' however the more i've driven it the more hooked i've become and the more I want to play with it. With the benefit of hindsight a later 250bhp model with M030 might have been more suitable but I've decided to keep mine because it seems to be a good car, so i've decied to upgrade all the components as a bit of a project over a couple of years. I decided to do this because I came to the decision that it will be cheaper to upgrade my current car to make it more fun on the track than to sell it and risk buying a later car that isn't in as good condition and needs a stack of cash spending on it to get it to the standard of my current car. In anycase time and technology has moved on and some of the aftermarket suspension systems on the market are better than M030 - and in any case the majority of M030 cars out there would benefit from their old tired shockers being overhauled - which aint cheap!! It really depends how far you want to take things. If you want a 400bhp monster then you are best selling up and getting something more suitable to upgrade, but if you want something a bit more modest but with good street and track behaviour then a 220 bhp car is a perfectly good platform to start with. If you are hard-core tracker then the LSD fitted to the M030 models might be an attractive feature, however unless you are a hard-core tracker you will not notice the lack of LSD on a dry sticky track. And in most circumstances you are better off without an LSD for the road.
So far i've got the Promax level 2 kit and big blacks (using adapter brackets) and have a few other bits and bobs planned, however with your car having the early hubs i'm not sure what implications that has regarding brake and suspension upgrades - however the basic concept is the same - better the devil you know.
And don't forget the smaller turbo's on the early cars are still good for 300bhp and are more street-friendly. It's a tricky decision and it all depends upon how much it will cost you to sell your car and get yourself an M030 equipped car that is in as good condition as your current car.
So far i've got the Promax level 2 kit and big blacks (using adapter brackets) and have a few other bits and bobs planned, however with your car having the early hubs i'm not sure what implications that has regarding brake and suspension upgrades - however the basic concept is the same - better the devil you know.
And don't forget the smaller turbo's on the early cars are still good for 300bhp and are more street-friendly. It's a tricky decision and it all depends upon how much it will cost you to sell your car and get yourself an M030 equipped car that is in as good condition as your current car.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
That may be your problem......
ProMax divides opinion on this forum. Let's just say the owners of the more heavily modified cars tend to sit on the side of the fence that doesn't rate them.
I have a soft-spot for the early '86 cars. I wouldn't buy one as a first choice for a trackday toy, but that's only because the later cars had some extra bawbles that make them still better for track. If the 944 Turbo had only ever been the spec it was in '86 it would still be considered an excellent basis for a track car. Plenty of 968 owners track their cars and they are more similar to the 220 than 250 Turbo in terms of chassis. You miss out on the LSD gearbox, bigger brakes and tougher drive shafts etc. that it might be better to have, but they aren't essential. I have a 250 car's turbo and ECU spare if you wanted to get the engine up to that spec, but you'd be better going for a more modern turbo - it's effectively the same engine (in fact you might have forged con-rods rather than cast) so if you fit an upgrade turbo and remap/chip then it's as good as a later car.
Speak to Stuart at www.k300performance.co.uk (who is also the 968 register secretary) about KW. I think it will fit the '86 car and it costs just under £1,400 delivered. It really is awesome - Partick can attest to how much better than fresh M030 it is on track and that it is as compliant on the road. As Paul said M030 is an aged design and as Scott said it's going to be past its best on most cars and costs £1,400+ to replace.
I have a soft-spot for the early '86 cars. I wouldn't buy one as a first choice for a trackday toy, but that's only because the later cars had some extra bawbles that make them still better for track. If the 944 Turbo had only ever been the spec it was in '86 it would still be considered an excellent basis for a track car. Plenty of 968 owners track their cars and they are more similar to the 220 than 250 Turbo in terms of chassis. You miss out on the LSD gearbox, bigger brakes and tougher drive shafts etc. that it might be better to have, but they aren't essential. I have a 250 car's turbo and ECU spare if you wanted to get the engine up to that spec, but you'd be better going for a more modern turbo - it's effectively the same engine (in fact you might have forged con-rods rather than cast) so if you fit an upgrade turbo and remap/chip then it's as good as a later car.
Speak to Stuart at www.k300performance.co.uk (who is also the 968 register secretary) about KW. I think it will fit the '86 car and it costs just under £1,400 delivered. It really is awesome - Partick can attest to how much better than fresh M030 it is on track and that it is as compliant on the road. As Paul said M030 is an aged design and as Scott said it's going to be past its best on most cars and costs £1,400+ to replace.
DivineE
New member
Definitely keep the car. I did exactly as you did bought the early car and then learnt the advantages of the later model! I ended up not changing the early brakes for M030 setup because everyone kept making long expensive lists of the parts I might need for the conversion. Fortunately I have just bought another 86' turbo which has already been upgraded with M030 brakes and LSD gearbox.
Looking a bit further into it (and asking Jon Mitchell) how it can still have the early offset wheels on it, it seems (and looks) like all the chap has done is buy two hubs with calipers etc from a later M030 car, bolted them on and not changed anything else. Looks fairly simple to me and the car drives, corners and brakes beautifully.
The only thing I will say is that I've really noticed the difference between the non LSD original and the new LSD equipped car and I've not yet been out on the track. In the wet the car has infinitely more grip pulling off where my old car used to struggle accelerating in 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the wet (especially when overtaking) and when accelerating out of roundabouts and sharp bends. The old car used to slide and fishtail violently feeling quite unstable at times where as this car feels very much more balanced and controllable on the limit. It doesn't have such a bite back as the rear end comes back in line. Everything feels tight, responsive and under control. I feel it's a very worth while purchase and only 6or so hours of labour to change a gearbox.
Ben
p.s. I have attached a pic I have of the hub with brakes attached incase anyone can gain anything from it by looking, cant see how myself but it can't hurt. (also the car has no ABS obviously "" which I prefer)
Looking a bit further into it (and asking Jon Mitchell) how it can still have the early offset wheels on it, it seems (and looks) like all the chap has done is buy two hubs with calipers etc from a later M030 car, bolted them on and not changed anything else. Looks fairly simple to me and the car drives, corners and brakes beautifully.
The only thing I will say is that I've really noticed the difference between the non LSD original and the new LSD equipped car and I've not yet been out on the track. In the wet the car has infinitely more grip pulling off where my old car used to struggle accelerating in 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the wet (especially when overtaking) and when accelerating out of roundabouts and sharp bends. The old car used to slide and fishtail violently feeling quite unstable at times where as this car feels very much more balanced and controllable on the limit. It doesn't have such a bite back as the rear end comes back in line. Everything feels tight, responsive and under control. I feel it's a very worth while purchase and only 6or so hours of labour to change a gearbox.
Ben
p.s. I have attached a pic I have of the hub with brakes attached incase anyone can gain anything from it by looking, cant see how myself but it can't hurt. (also the car has no ABS obviously "" which I prefer)
DivineE
New member
I will have a look at the back of the wheels as soon as its dry, its hard to establish exact age because its an import. Could be a late 86' but was pre ABS. Jon informs me that the front hubs had the same offset and that it was the wishbones that changed the offset on thew later cars (or something to that effect) to I assumed the wishbones etc were left original. I'm farely sure that the suspension is not M030 but wouldn't know the difference between early and late suspension. I have taken a pic of the top of the strut if this helps...
Ben
Ben
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