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do I swop or stick

cococola

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Itchy feet time...do I sell my 944 that I have an attachment to(4 years and know the car well) or do I change for an early Boxster?
If I change I would have to borrow money to do so and my costs would go up on insurance etc I guess? However even though I love the 944,I do wonder weather its worth trying something else.[8|]
Any plusses and minusses would be greatfully recieved.
 
I'm going to chip in my thoughts as I suspect we share a few on this one ?
I believe the Boxster would be a better drive to work/daily drive car , more modern nice flexable drive good handling etc in fact the only down side I can see to the Boxster is the reputation as a 'soft' Porsche or you know what dressers car,
( I cant even say it as its a stupid phrase). Minuses ? , you lose two terrible back seats as for insurance , fully comp for me on a boxster 3.2 is around 300 to 320 a year usig my no claims , no real shakes.

Basically I think a Boxster is likely to bring you an immense ammount of pleasure for what is essentially peanuts. For me though it's 3.2 S or nothing. As you may have guessed I'm very tempted by one myself but then I'm tempted by far too many cars lol

 
You only live once and you can't take it with you, if you want one buy one [:D]

You can always sell it & buy something else if it doesn't appeal [;)]
 
After sitting behind one today and hearing it accelerate (think PSE maybe) has to be right up there in terms of bargains right now. It was a 987 S but they are around the £18-£20k mark currently (and probably just to fall even further)..and its a much better looking car then the earlier versions (front end very 911 ish)....personally...I dont listen to other people so if u want one get it. Always be a nice well looked after 944 to come back to if you dont like it.
 
Itchy feet time...do I sell my 944 that I have an attachment to(4 years and know the car well) or do I change for an early Boxster?

For my tuppence-worth, I'd not change for a cheapish early Boxster on borrowed money.

We say a 944 can throw bills at you, but they are magnified with the well-documented issues Boxsters suffer from. Not dissing the car by any means, and I'm with Mas on the "image" thing - it's plainly as stupid to say it's a "girly" car in the same way that a 944 is, actually, a real Porsche. Only the un-educated, or those who've spent loads of money on a lesser car, would say a Boxster isn't a bargain, and best in it's class. Just that I'd want a few grand in the emergency fund, the same way we suggest £1K with a 944, or a service plan such as Hartech's, or a cast-iron warranty. None of these would be a comfortable way for me to run a car, as I'd be borrowing to cover myself on something I'd borrowed to buy! [&o]

The other thing is that I get so many Club members and visitors at events staring longingly at the rows of 944s. Many owners of newer cars remember their 944 with great fondness, and regret ever selling it. If you've got one you're happy with it's be hard to get back into ownership if the Boxster didn't live up to expectations. The ideal thing is to have plenty of cash to throw at a Boxster so you can relax without constantly watching the floor for oil droplets, and keep the 944. Oh for that lottery ticket to come up trumps.....[&:]
 
As everyone will no doubt say its entirely down to personal choice. As you mention, you have had the car or four years now and so know it and have done various jobs on it so know what condition its in. Quite possibly an early Boxster will have its fair share of jobs that need doing and so budget and hassle factor for that possibily need to be factored in. Personally I prefer the 944 to just about any Boxster and certainly over an early 2.5 model but many folk love them of course and they are undoubtedly fine cars albeit very different from our own.
 
The biggest problem with the Boxter IMO is its image, not helped by the likes of Jeremy Clarkson. But if I was going to spend decent money on an old Boxter or a really nice 944. Well..... Tough one. I've seen a few higher mileage Boxters come throught the trade with serious engine failures as well, resulting in big money. Check out the cost of a replacement engine for a Boxter and you may have second thoughts.
 
The biggest problem for the boxster is the self destructing engine and the fact that you can get any number of other roadsters for similar to less money with far lower running costs. Personally I found the boxster fairly tiring to drive in long distances, you just can't escape the constant thrum of the engine behind you and all the other noises. In theory an S2, late turbo or 968 is a better every day car but age related issues would worry me on any of these cars. My 968 for example has been off the road since Christmas as I couldn't get it sorted in time for the MoT, last year it was also off the road for a few weeks sorting other niggles.

Off the wall suggestion but not surprising from me, get a couple of £K together and go and get a mk1 MX-5 to keep your 944 company.
 
Being a newer model there are many more tuning & personalisation options for the Boxster (which may not be what you're interested in) than with the 944. I'm thinking about a Boxster too because of that but the loss of those 2 seats may keep me from making the jump. In light of the newly released Boxster Spyder I think many people will start to think of the Boxster more soberly. In a sense the 944 & Boxster are both regarded as "lesser porsches" by the fashion victim set but we all know that they're cracking bargains considering the other fluff on the market. Four years with the same car is a good innings IMO.
 
I've clocked up quite a few miles in Boxsters now and find them to be a superb car. Feel very much like a 944 in the handling department and the price the early Boxsters are going for now they are a steal. They are also deceptively fast, even the non-S can shift when you want it. They don't feel particularly fast through the seat of the pants, but when you look at the speedo they certainly clock up the mph's very well.

The engine problems are much overhyped and those that are going to suffer would have done so by now. Between Boxster and 996 owning friends and work colleagues that must number around 15 now, not one has suffered any problems whatsoever with the engines - not so much as a weeping RMS or a cracked cylinder liner amongst them - and none of these are Porsche enthusiasts who molly-coddle their cars - they are daily drivers come rain, shine, snow, salt, hell and high water and suffer the abuses normal cars do with missed service intervals, non OPC or specialists servicing and working on them. They have all proven to be very robust and ultra reliable. The only problem they seem to suffer from are brake disks that corrode like billy-o, coil packs that don't last long (quite cheap though) and tyres that wear on the inner edge due to the camber that Boxsters have. The exhaust heat-sheilds can rattle as the mountings can fatigue , but they work perfectly well without them in this country.

For sure if you fancy something more modern and especially if you fancy a soft top then i'd not look elsewhere. Personally i'd only go for an S after a turbo, but if you're stepping out of a Lux you're not going to be disappointed with a 2.7 non-S. Easily a worth successor to a 944. Take one for a test drive and see for yourself.
 
Your forgetting the rads Scott. This is a well known failing on those cars when they get a bit older. I have a relative who bought one last year, cost him £4.5K to fix he then sold it on and swears he will not touch another Porsche. Problems where rads, AC, gearbox problem of some sort, and another problem in the top end. It was in a noisy pub when he told me about the damage so I can't recall the gearbox and engine specifics.

If the engines where so fantastic and reliable why do you think Baz Hartech has invested so much time and money into rebuild options on these engines?
 
The engine problems are much overhyped and those that are going to suffer would have done so by now.

Two problems. RMS, now treated as a consumeable with a clutch, or about £500 as a separate fix at an indie, as long as you catch it before the oil leaks out. IMS is more serious as it's terminal. Read Pistonheads, it's not uncommon for new posters to have one of these failures. In the same way that we get people surprised to find the MOT tester telling them they've got rusty sills.

My impression is it's about 5% engines with big problems. Not age-related, Porsches can be worlds apart at different ages depending on the owner. Witness the 20K mile 944 and the 200K. Also, many Boxsters are on replacement engines, often without the owner knowing (according to one specialist I spoke to).

Again, not a reason to avoind a Boxster. Just a reason not to borrow money to buy a cheap one if you haven't got a "plan B" if you are one of the unlucky ones IMO.

I've clocked up quite a few miles in Boxsters now and find them to be a superb car. Feel very much like a 944 in the handling department and the price the early Boxsters are going for now they are a steal.

Then, if you've honed your 944 to perfection over 4 years why change to something (on borrowed money) that is very much like a 944 in the handling department but an unknown quantity? And, it's got a smaller boot, no rear seats... [8|]
 
I'd say don't.

I don't know what your financial situation is, but Boxsters seem like a much more expensive proposition than a 944 to me. That's mainly because maintenance on a 944 is almost entirely a DIY job, and Boxsters are more complex, but they are more expensive cars to buy as well. They are also more likely to be vandalised, being more modern 'showier' cars, and you have the security issues of a soft-top.

Practicality? A Boxster is not a patch on a 944. You lose two seats and a very reasonable boot by swapping. I run a 944 as an only car, and couldn't do the same with a Boxster.

I'll disagree with Scott - I thought the Boxster (987 2.7 non-S) was very different to drive to a 944. It was crisp and apparently responsive at first, but very very nannied (PMS, which I didn't turn off - it wasn't my car), and hence overly tamed. Hard acceleration was muted, automatically. Cornering on either full or trailing throttle was great in anticipation ... but when you got serious you could feel the ECU backing off the throttle and putting the inside rear brake on. The overall experience felt very superficial, whereas a well set-up 944 has real depth of ability. I thought I would get bored with a Boxster very quickly (and I only had it for a month or so), whereas after four years with my S2 I can't imagine ever being bored with the way it drives.

Count the pennies and take one for a (long) drive. But bear in mind that good 944's are getting rarer, and if you sell your current waggon you may struggle to return to the fold.


Oli.
 
Unfortunately it's not quite true to say the engine problems are solved. These cars can still suffer with the ovaling/cracking cylinder problem that haunts the 996 carrera and although its a rare fault no one seems able to establish when it might happen. Some do 30,000miles some 120,000miles or more before they fail.

I think its a beautifully designed car with fantastic interior and even better handling but personally I couldn't take the drop in performance. Having had a good run down the A6 with a 2.7 in my standard and not exactly fresh 250 turbo I followed for a bit, both overtaking everything we came accross then I pulled out, passed him and pulled back in off a roundabout before even reaching the end of third gear. The Boxter sounded lovely but I couldn't help notice it looked a bit weedy and narrow with its thin tires and tall body compared with the 944t. The lack of go just reinforced that appearance. It looked more like a nice roadster than a performance car. That's not why I like Porsche cars and I felt very content with my choice as he vanished in my mirror.

If you need an upgrade join the dark side and get a turbo.. I did and have never looked back (well thats not quite true I'll never forget my first lux and how sweet its handling was but you cant argue with that on boost feeling:)
 

ORIGINAL: DivineE
If you need an upgrade join the dark side and get a turbo.. I did and have never looked back (well thats not quite true I'll never forget my first lux and how sweet its handling was but you cant argue with that on boost feeling:)

I haven't owned one but no doubt about that. I went from an S2 as my stock spec Porsche to a 968, whilst IMHO the 968 is a much better car, I would definitely say it has been a let down in that its just to similar to the S2. I am sure if I hadn't of previously driven an S2 so extensively I would have loved it like crazy. It would have been much better for me to get an old 911 instead and got that one out of my system. The turbo however adds a dimension that no NA 4 pot Porsche has, either that or something really mad like a manual gearbox 928 (if you can find one). The best thing about the 968 bizarelly is that the refinement makes it a great GT, we went down to Falmouth and back in a day in ours last September. No sweat at all and no more hardship then doing the same drive in a works rental Passat.
 
The problem here is that people, especially on a popular forum such as this, get to hear about almost all bad things that happen to these cars, however the vast majority of satisfied people never bother to come onto a forum to simply say they are satisfied. The result is that you get a very scewed impression of what the true reliability of these things are.

Another problem is that people often walk into Porsche ownership with a perhaps unrealistic expectation, probably from a Porsche enthusiast friend, and inevitably end up disappointed and slag the cars off, not because they are bad cars, but because they failed to meet their unrealistic expectations.

Also alot of people have an axe to grind due to the poor way they feel they've been treated by the Porsche aftersales care.

Bear in mind my comparison in handling is in reference to my 944 on KW's which updates the handling of the 944 such that it feels like a much more modern car. I must say i've not found the electronics in the Boxster too intrusive. I never ragged the cars as they were friends cars, but accelerating hard out of roundabouts I found the tail to be fairly predictable and the electronics would even allow the tail to step out a bit without intervening. In anycase on a mid engined car electronic intervention is needed due to twitchier handling. Go on, I guess it is down to personal taste and experiences. These are road cars afterall driven by people who often like to think they are better drivers than they really are and I include myself as one of these people - but at least i've admitted it to myself and am wary of my overconfidence.

All Porsche are very good cars and in many ways the Boxster is maybe (dare I suggest it) the future for Porsche. The Cayman is, after-all, a Boxster with a roof on, and many have written that pound for pound that the Cayman the best road going sportscar money can buy. Personally I prefer tin roof's so would hold out for depreciating Cayman in preference to a Boxster.

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty


I've clocked up quite a few miles in Boxsters now and find them to be a superb car. Feel very much like a 944 in the handling department and the price the early Boxsters are going for now they are a steal.

Then, if you've honed your 944 to perfection over 4 years why change to something (on borrowed money) that is very much like a 944 in the handling department but an unknown quantity? And, it's got a smaller boot, no rear seats... [8|]

A very good point well made. I personally wouldn't get a Boxster, though i'd never say never, but if the lack of rear seats are not an issue and the lack of boot space isn't and you want a ragtop then why not? 944s are not without their problems, as this forum shows, and are not getting any younger or more reliable. I personally am getting to that age and situation in life where I no longer have the space, time and often the inclination to get out the jack and tools to fix a problem. Unfortunately cars to me now are a practical tool used for getting from A to B rather than a hobby - my next Porsche will be a good 5yrs away. And even Porsches, as good and robust as they are, are not immune to the relentless march of Old Father Time. Battle with the tin worm, fading paintwork, niggly problems, risk of parts becoming hard to get or suddenly increasing three fold in price. More modern cars are certainly a more attractive proposition to me.
 
The problem here is that people, especially on a popular forum such as this, get to hear about almost all bad things that happen to these cars, however the vast majority of satisfied people never bother to come onto a forum to simply say they are satisfied. The result is that you get a very scewed impression of what the true reliability of these things are.

I'd suggest that's exactly why you can make a fair judgement now. It's impossible for car makers to cover problems up.

If you're buying a modern Porsche on the "used" market, you need to factor in the potential costs. Would you seriously buy a BMW that had been widely reported on internet forums as being at risk of Vanos failure without taking it into consideration? I'd love a Cayman, but my budget of £1K a year to run a toy wouldn't leave me with the peace of mind that would allow me to enjoy the car. A 944 does.

The original question was:

If I change I would have to borrow money to do so and my costs would go up on insurance etc I guess? However even though I love the 944,I do wonder weather its worth trying something else.
Any plusses and minusses would be greatfully recieved.

My answer is don't do it. Not because Boxsters are unreliable, or internet forums have created a misconception, but because the car you'll get on borrowed money will potentially be less enjoyable than the one you already own and love. The risk of big bills from proven design faults is just another reason to lie awake at night listening for oil dripping out of the car.
 
That is a very good point Scott. I have felt for some time now that the 44 and to some degree the 68 as well only make sense these days for the diy-er in that if one wants a car you can use day in day out but will only use a garage to fix every little thing then they don't make economic sense. I hate to think how many hours I have spent on my cars over the years and more and more I feel why am I doing this. I only have to work for an hour and a half to pay an hours labour at most indies so more and more I think perhaps I should just do more overtime instead but then I know I will start to question why I am spending so much money on an old car not worth very much.
 

ORIGINAL: sawood12
I must say i've not found the electronics in the Boxster too intrusive. I never ragged the cars as they were friends cars, but accelerating hard out of roundabouts I found the tail to be fairly predictable and the electronics would even allow the tail to step out a bit without intervening. In anycase on a mid engined car electronic intervention is needed due to twitchier handling. Go on, I guess it is down to personal taste and experiences. These are road cars afterall driven by people who often like to think they are better drivers than they really are and I include myself as one of these people - but at least i've admitted it to myself and am wary of my overconfidence.
Good point. There are as many opinions as there are people, and I was left sorely cold by the Boxster I had the use of. It was a hire car, while my S2 was off the road, and I was expecting great things given the reputation. I was disappointed, but many many others aren't. Hence my "Go and drive one" comment.


Oli.
 
I am sure the last time a similar thread came up a few us agreed that the optimum would be to wait until the 2nd hand price on a Cayman S dropped into reach, an alternative way of saying the same thing could be to widen it out to the newer generation boxster, the S in particular being a Cayman S without the roof. I think if the Cayman S came down to around £15K things would start to get interesting for a fair few front engined pork owners.
 

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