Dodgy dealing on ebay

[Guest]

Manipou,
2 objective observations you might want to think about;

1) You say you "shill bid" because you set your reserve too low. Why not set your reserve higher? If anyone is interested in the part they will know how much it is worth and bid above your reserve. This is the HONEST approach, it has worked in every auction I've ever bid on, and it does not contravene eBay's contract of sale rules (breach of contract is on the Statute books as a crime you know?)

2) By your actions, be they honourable or not, you have pretty much alienated the computer literate Porsche buying public from your future auctions. I've seen critical threads about your practices on no less than 5 Porsche forum's in the UK and USA. The market for a 1974 2.7ltr engine is pretty small to start with, and I'm sorry to say that for you the market has gotten a lot smaller.

 

[Michael Downing]

ORIGINAL: hudsonlu
breach of contract is on the Statute books as a crime you know

Not sure about that. I think it's more of a civil tort. I'm willing to be contradicted by any of the lawyers on the forum, however.

Misrepresentation, deception and fraud, now they are different.

 

[Rotorhead]

ORIGINAL: Mark Bennett

I bought a Rosemeyer book from kcigermany - why?

He's a professional. Some of his items are genuine and some are re-pros, although he'll describe them as NOS. He presents a lot of stuff as rare when they are readily available from OPCs etc. I've had my fingers burnt.

What's interesting is that if you look at any bidding history, under each bidder it says, "Private Listing - Bidders' Identification Protected", so you cannot identify dubious bidding. And, under his feedback, most items are listed as "Private".

This prevents buyers seeing that he has been selling shed loads of "rare" items for ages. It also prevents buyers from contacting/alerting eachother.

So why don't people give bad feedback? - For fear of reciprocation, I guess. Some of his stuff is fine, but he is also getting away with some dubious tactics.

If you want an example, just look at current item # 4581463690. These are re-prints. I ordered one of these from my OPC for £29!

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Michael Downing

ORIGINAL: hudsonlu
breach of contract is on the Statute books as a crime you know

Not sure about that. I think it's more of a civil tort. I'm willing to be contradicted by any of the lawyers on the forum, however.

Misrepresentation, deception and fraud, now they are different.

Michael is correct - breach of contract is not a crime and there are no statutory instruments covering it

 

[John_Ward]

This thread makes for fascinating reading, and throws light one what seems to be an increasingly common eBay practice which is taking the fun / profit out of it for a lot of people.
My interest in Mani's issues is a little more personal - and no, I'm not a friend and I don't live locally to him!
I advertised a genuine '74 RSR front valance and rear wing on eBay, with no reserve but a high starting price. The auction attracted quite a few enquiries as to the genuiness ( or otherwise ) of the parts, none more so than from Mani, who tried hard to convince me that they were probably replica parts. I disagreed!
To cut a long story short, I didn't get a single bid, but the evening after the auction ended I did get an email from Mani asking what was the least I would take for the items. I named a figure, and was paid in full in a matter of hours.
He then trekked around the M25 one night the following week to collect the parts that he now owned. No quibbles whatsoever, and he even paid me the £20 that I had forgotten for bank charges!
From enquiries that I've had and seen from Mani via PCGB he is obviously dealing in some of the rarer Porsche cars and associated parts. I don't know whether this occurred because a hobby got out of hand or what, but I suspect that the bottom line behind the current furore is that as the Internet has widened the market place, it has also heightened peoples awareness of the value of the parts / cars that they have for sale, the nett result of which is that there are far fewer true bargains to be had, and thus fewer opportunities for a serious financial killing.
I'm not condoning what clearly seems to have been going on, just making the point that a year ago, under different circumstances, the guy was as good as his word.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

ORIGINAL: oliver

ORIGINAL: Mark Bennett

I bought a Rosemeyer book from kcigermany - why?

He's a professional. Some of his items are genuine and some are re-pros, although he'll describe them as NOS. He presents a lot of stuff as rare when they are readily available from OPCs etc. I've had my fingers burnt.

...

If you want an example, just look at current item # 4581463690. These are re-prints. I ordered one of these from my OPC for £29!

Got you. Thanks for the info[]

OK I think the book I got is a genuine one from the 1940's(? - whenever it was that Elly wrote the book about him!) - it would take a lot to reproduce the wear and tear on it! But it is not really "rare" as I see more copies come up from him now and again (unless that last copy really isn't selling [])

Back on topic...

 

[Guest]

sorry to upset the lawyers with my incorrect use of legal terms (I'm sure you're billing your clients whilst browsing the internet..) I thought this advert was on ebay.com which is a US jurisdiction where breach of contract is a crime i.e statutory offence, if it's in good old Blighty it may not techincally be a "crime" but its still shonky as hell!

 

[Michael Downing]

ORIGINAL: hudsonlu
sorry to upset the lawyers with my incorrect use of legal terms

Don't worry about me - I'm not a lawyer, just a pedant! []

 

[912UK]

interesting stuff and reading.. Ebay has changed and there can be some very good buys out there but I find as a seller mainly that Ebay has driven the price right down of many items. ( could even be a reason why retail sales as a whole are down and personal debt Credit cards are so high Pay pal on line payemnts buy it now kinda stuf ) but I can see why some people would bid up their items. Esp as Ebay UK has a no reserve under £50. Ebay was alwasy going to change I was there from the start in 99 and it has helped my company get started but now I fear the crook eliment will come in more and more. Hidden faces and not seeing the other person. I am not saying this has happened with this event.

Call it what you want bidding up some ones elses item is wrong and learning about plastic bidding is wrong as well ( i have been aware of " off the wall bids " at car auctions I once got caught up in that and I noticed quickly and stopped bidding I later bought the car after I put in an offer of take it or leave it. I even got a better price.)

Moral fiber at the end of the day I admit to buying and selling a few parts as I go along doing the restoration. BUT I NEVER EVER say anything else other than I have these spare as I have bought some better ones and these are surplus, the money will help me buy more parts I need. I get more respect for that , and even phone calls later saying I have details of parts you might be interested in.

Interesting story. But there is always TWO sides to it. Remeber that guys []

 

[juliany27]

Michael

I am a criminal litigator and knwow more than a bit about this topic. Breach of contract is a civil matter; making fraudulent representations [certain misrepresentations], theft and deception are, most definitely, criminal offences and treated very seriously by the police and the Courts.

I think that those abusing Ebay should watch out; it is only a matter of time before the police and/or trading standards officers get involved; and this is before the Inland Revenue look at undeclared profits, non-payment of taxes and VAT etc.

 

[tim court]

ORIGINAL: 912UK

Interesting story. But there is always TWO sides to it. Remeber that guys []

Wise words in this instance. ( but the quote doesn't apply in all cases - ask my ex.[])

 

[Guest]

Chaps

I am constantly amazed by the power of internet forums. I have no connection to Manipou but have bought something from him in the past with no problems.

I remember selling my 968 a couple of years back and having loads of phone calls about it but no sale for months. I then found through looking at various forums that members had been taking it in turns to phone me up to ask questions and then bicker amongst them selves as to whether what I had said to each of them tied up. I even had people write that I was not an porsche enthusiast! (my girlfriend wishes) Now these were not chav-reunited forums but well respected forums related to porsches the car was genuine as was my reason for sale.

It seems to me that some people may have too much spare time and use the anonimity of forums to write things and stirr up little dust storms for their own self gratification. Some turn uber-detective on their lunch hour to prove that people selling genuine items are infact master crims worthy of stringing up. All I can say is please lighten up, its nearly the weekend.

As for the accused when I dealt with him he was a really nice and helpful chap with a clear passion for porsches, and at the end of the day isnt that the reason we all post on these forums anyway?

Cheers
D5hef

Awaits the barage of accusations of being an alter ego of Manipou, go easy on me chaps, I just felt that this topic was a little one sided.

 

[912UK]

ORIGINAL: tim court

ORIGINAL: 912UK

Interesting story. But there is always TWO sides to it. Remeber that guys []

Wise words in this instance. ( but the quote doesn't apply in all cases - ask my ex.[])

[] and mine.. I remeber signing the divorse papers and putting a reply to her " lies " oh I mean comments.......

" and I wish my future Ex wife good luck in her new carrea as a story teller " [][] and I handed it in like that as well.

 

[tim court]

[][][]

 

[912UK]

you got to get your own back some time. I bet the court had a chuckle and I also bet they see it all the time..[]

 

[drummerboytom]

ORIGINAL: manipou

But the best bit is more than one person has linked me to rosieglossop and the engine she has for sale. I got the impression it is actually her boyfriends but...Sorry guys this one is nothing to do with me.

Mani ,
Are you trying to tell us someone with £13k to spend who is actually trying to win an item would bid £12,995 rather than £13,005 ?
£12,995 is a bid placed NOT to win an auction , but calculated to drive up an earlier bid to as high a level as possible WITHOUT winning
or
to establish an artificial "reserve" , the bidder will of course not be expected to buy the item if the bid is not beaten because he is the buyers mate.

Item number: 4576773435 1990 RHD PORSCHE 911 3.6 CARRERA 2 CABRIOLET
http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=4576773435

And Rosieglossop is "nothing to do with you" ?

 

[jerry911sc]

All I can say is please lighten up, its nearly the weekend.

Agreed.

What has happened to EBay in the past year or so is really sad. [&:]

But whatever was going here on you have to concede that if the winner was genuine the guy bid what he either A) was prepared to pay or B) what he thought it was worth. When he saw the motor assuming he had the good sense to inspect etc before coughing up he could have walked away if it was not as described.

 

[Manipoe]

Hi John and the others who's paths I have crossed.. May I add I have not had one complaint or return of any item that I have ever sold. Even that 964 Cab that sold on ebay (link above, somewhere) was a genuine bargain and I thought it would go for more. The person who bought it was a trader, that is how cheap and good it was. He even admitted to bidding quite a bit more than he got it for. The people who are trying to give me a bad name have never even met me or been interested in anything I have had for sale.

John, by the way that RSR project it still on the go but has got a bit out of hand, some parts are near impossible to find...Anyone know of any 3.0RSR spec engines going?

Ok Nigel and the rest of you guys, as I said previously, you got me, hook line and sinker. I will endeavor to restrain from my dubious tactics that were innocently designed to generate slightly more interest in my items. I do have to say though, my crimes on Ebay won't loose me any sleep as they haven't harmed anyone in any way.

A good rating is what counts. Nigel I don't doubt that you won't be buying from me and with that im fine, I get the impression that you are the type that would complain about a dent in the package or slight discolouration on a 35 year old item anyway, but lets face it, at least any other buyers will know that what I am selling is properly described and they will get it quickly in good order.

So if you don't trust me then so be it, the 663 and 665 engines I own are not even for sale. As for the other rare items that I do have for sale, well I guess the buyers will still be there somewhere...

What I don't get is this eagerness to put someone down, I have seen quite a bit of it on Porsche forums and it doesn't make any sense. Aren't well all here because of a love of Porsche's. All this, I know this, you know that, I know that you know that I know what you knew once etc..It just reminds me of the unpopular kid at school that feels important when he grasses up one of the other kids...

I do agree though it does make interest reading and I think that the character of more than one person has been brought to light"¦[]

Hope you are all having a good weekend, i'm going down the pub....

 

[Guest]

Manipou I agree with a lot of what you say in your last post (except perhaps your attempts to put me down) and as mutual Porsche followers we should have a common aim in our following of the marque with honesty, integrity and above all friendship.

Perhaps this saga would have been quickly buried if you had not tried to pretend that you were not involved in shill bidding. This only served to make a number of other people more determined to undermine you and your integrity.

You have now come clean and all credit to you for doing so.

Also now that you have come clean and taken on board the concerns expressed by many people I would be happy to consider buying from you.

I hope there are no hard feelings and I wish you well.

 

[912UK]

THE END..

du du du that's all folks []