EBC Orange Stuff?

[Tommys86]

Been running our S2 racer on EBC yellow stuff - seems OK nothing special (definitely getting out broken into the corners but that might not be pads!) and need some new pads.

Was looking for upgraded pads and seen EBC Orange Stuff (race) but unable to find them for 944s? Anyone seen them for 944s and tried them? Or should I be looking at other brand - seen a lot of Minted 1144 but have no idea what they're like? Need to be race proof - this isn't for road going S2! Cheers Tom

 

[Eldavo]

I run M1144s on my Trackday turbo but would go for M1155s for racing or the PF pads that Edh and others run - Design 911 sell them I think.

Be aware that any Mintex "M" pads are made to order unless you find an eBay seller with physical stock for an extra £20.

 

[Tommys86]

Thanks Eldavo I'll have a butchers at the PF pads and see! Yeah haven't seen M1155s about so probably explains it.

 

[Tommys86]

Think i found them - PFC compound 11 for £111.08 per axle? Are little more than EBC yellowstuff which im happy to buy if it performs better

 

[Cater_Racer]

I think 1166 for Mintex pads Tom, I use 1155's in the rally car.
look at
http://www.ferodoracing.com/products/car-racing/racing-brake-pads/ds2500/
and
http://www.apracing.com/products/race_car/brake_pads/ap_racing_brake_pad_materials.aspx

I think Orange or Ferodo DS3000 or APF403.

Don't buy anything on eBay.

 

[Richair]

Sack off the EBC junk, they're terrible and yes I have used them in the past. I use PFC 11's (great pads with a long life), Pagid RS 4-2 (again very long lasting, not quite as much bite as the PFC so good for the rear but expensive) and I'm also a big fan of Ferodo DS3000 (excellent bite, but they don't last long) and DS1.11 (less bite but more consistent and longer lasting than 3000's).

Any of the above will demonstrate just how crap the EBC pads are ;-) Decent pads are worth paying the money for as they pay dividends in the long run due to longer life and more consistent performance.

 

[chrisg]

I've run M1155's on the Turbo for years, they work very well and have good longevity. M1166's are the next step up - might be a bit too hard - depends on the temperature you're going to run them at.

I'd have thought you'd be able to get sufficient cooling to the front brakes to avoid having to use the 1166's

Chris

 

[Cater_Racer]

Thanks Dave, Richard, Chris some useful thoughts.

We have got some venting on the brakes but they do get very hot, we know as we were boiling dot 5.1 and had to change fluid to full racing spec.

The vents are taken from the light clusters:

 

[edh]

PFC or Pagid seem to be the best choices - the small pads on a 944S2 will get pretty hot in a race (m030 calipers a good upgrade?). Good cooling /ducting essential I think

The only downside to Pagids seems to be the cost. PFC 08 is working well for me on trackdays in the S2. I used to use PFC 97's in the turbo & that was a pretty heavy thing but the brakes never ever gave up.

 

[Richair]

Interesting to see that your brake ducts are positioned towards the outside of the bumper, although I've seen many 944's done this way; due to the shape of the bumper the air pressure lowers as it passes around the bumper so the further you move away from the centre line of the car the less airflow you'll see into any inlet or duct. Here's how I've done mine: (admitted this takes a bit more effort as space is more limited towards the centre of the car)

Also I found the standard small Brembos too weak even for track day use, so I've put my own custom setup together using Wilwood forged Superlite 6 calipers and 993 304x32mm rotors. I'm also doing a fully enclosed ducted inlet to the inside of the rotors so I'm hoping I should be able to stand on them for the full duration of a race!

I'm yet to make the actual duct inlet for these...

 

[Tommys86]

Great stuff guys - yeah I was suspicious of the EBC hence us taking the time to ask about, definitely worse on braking against other S2s but wasn't sure how many had done similar Richard and gone all out on the upgrades - they look the business! Interesting about the ducting options - think we went for easiest at the time but you're right for increased air flow you want to be central.

Noticed your signature - 1986 951 - under preparation for CSCC Future Classics.... is this for this year or next? Numbers seem to be pretty good for 944s (S2s admittedly, turbos are much rarer but look nice as they drive by!)

 

[Richair]

I'm hoping the car will be ready for Donnington in September Tom, realistically it should be ready well before then but I'd like to keep my first event in the car fairly local. My main focus is on it being ready for next year, but like most race cars it will be an ongoing development project...

 

[trackm3]

M1166 is a rear compound so be careful there, M1155 or F series for racing if you want Mintex, we sell a lot of Mintex Pads if Pagid RS cant help of course

 

[Cater_Racer]

Tweeks have the ferodo DS3000 in for £146.00 , might be the way to go?

 

[trackm3]

Pagid RST3 is a favourite with a lot of my BMW customers now, its classed as a sprint pad so ideal for 20 minute races and not to expensive @ £163

 

[Richair]

They're great Pads Gerry but they don't last long at all, we were only getting one event out of D3000's on my pal's Civic Type-R we run in Tintops. We've now switched to DS1.11 which are proving to be more durable: we did the Snetterton test day and the race on a new set and they're only about 50% worn. But I've just had a look at Tweeks and I see they're very expensive for Brembo calipers!!

Personally if I were you I'd go for the PFC pads from Design911, they really are excellent from all angles.

 

[Cater_Racer]

Thanks Trackm3 but ours is a 40 minute or 1 hour race, things get HOT! We need full race pads.

 

[trackm3]

OK, so RS14 or 29, Ferodo wont be up to the job and EBC Orange didn't last us 20 mins of quali, RS29 £190 RS14 £172

 

[Richair]

OK, so RS14 or 29, Ferodo wont be up to the job and EBC Orange didn't last us 20 mins of quali, RS29 £190 RS14 £172

I'm sorry but that's just not correct, Ferodo's are more than up to the task. I have personally used both DS3000 and DS1.11's in 40 minute races and both hold up very well indeed on a non-ducted brake setup on a heavy 230bhp car. However I will agree that Pagid are a better pad as they will last longer, but performance wise there's not a lot in it. Speaking from personal experience, not hearsay.

Pagid RS2-9 would be a good shout, but I would still go for PFC personally as they're half the price and are just as good and should last a similar duration.

 

[trackm3]

DS3000 are very abrasive so yes they may stop but disk wear is horrendous as are the dust deposits, as for DS1.11 we made them last less than one race weekend in a 1200kg E36 M3 again race car !!! No real experience of PFC albeit i do supply there parts just never had personal experience as all the guys i supply in CTCRC use Pagid.