Menu toggle

ELEPHANT INSURANCE!

I too think this is a problem. I never realised on any of the cars that I have insured that you have to state options, over the base model, for insurance purposes.

I also think it appalling that the insurers do not make this situation clear when you obtain quotations or on their policies.

Maybe this is a situation for Watchdog to investigate?
 
I did learn, however, that if your car is stolen and not recovered then you lose any personal number plate too. A separate policy is available, but at a price.

How does that work then Brian?

As far as I am aware you must inform the DVLA immediately and then when either the car is recovered or a year has past they will re-issue the number to you.

JCB..
 
Job done! Elephant cancelled; new insurance arranged through Porsche for the sum of £660 with all options covered - and track day cover for 2 PCGB approved events annually! Very efficient service all round![:D]
 
Job done! Elephant cancelled; new insurance arranged through Porsche for the sum of £660 with all options covered - and track day cover for 2 PCGB approved events annually! Very efficient service all round!

Well done..

Any restrictions/excess/extra money for the trackdays?

JCB..
 
Apparently not - beyond an excess amounting to 10% of the value of any claim; so in the event of a total write off, I'd pay the first £5130! No additional premium payable for track days - however they prefer them to be PCGB or Porsche GB approved.
 
Someone asked earlier about what Insurers provide full cover with no hidden suprises like we've been discussing. I've double-checked my AXA policy and they consistently refer to the value of the car including accessories when settling claims.
For example, they say in the case of a write-off, they will replace the car with another of the same make, model & specification and if one is not available you get full market value of the car & it's fitted accessories. They don't add huge excesses for the Boxster either and I think my yearly premium is about £590.
I have to say that every other mainstream Insurer I tried considered optional extras as modifications and didn't cover them. Some were reasonably upfront about this with a clear definition of 'modification' available on their online quotation sites, whereas some, like Admiral, were deliberately misleading, in my opinion.

 

ORIGINAL: jw

they say in the case of a write-off, they will replace the car with another of the same make, model & specification and if one is not available you get full market value of the car & it's fitted accessories. They don't add huge excesses for the Boxster either and I think my yearly premium is about £590.

I'm with Norwich Union Direct and they have a similar policy wording.
 
Having been a loss adjuster I thought I might throw in my tuppence worth. The Insurance Ombudsman, that was, (the current Financial Ombudsman takes the same view) is quite clear as to what is a modification. If you a buy a "standard car" chosing from the "standard" list of options that is not modifying a vehicle. the Ombudsman' s view, the use of the word ' modified' could well be taken to mean fundamental changes to the original performance specification, with emphasis on ' fundamental' .

The following two cases come from the IOB

1. Addition to a body kit - whether vehicle had been ' modified'

Following the theft of the applicant' s Ford Orion Ghia the insurer advised him that it considered he had not made full disclosure regarding modifications to the vehicle. Spoilers, skirts, special road wheels and a special steering wheel had been added. The applicant asserted that the vehicle had been altered but not modified.

The specific question on the proposal form was ' has [the] vehicle been modified?' , to which he answered: ' No' . There was little doubt that the additions were the kind of feature which the insurer would have wished to know about, since they increased the risk of theft by making the car look more attractive. However, in the Ombudsman' s view, the use of the word ' modified' could well be taken to mean fundamental changes to the original performance specification, with emphasis on ' fundamental' .. Car accessory shops were full of items which car owners might place in or fix on to their vehicles, and the insurer accepted, for example, that if the only alteration made had been the painting of stripes down the side of the vehicle that would be a matter about which it need not know. It was not easy to say where the dividing line was to be drawn, but the point of the Statement of General Insurance Practice was that such questions were for insurers to make clear, and not for the public to judge.

It was considered that the body kit and other items fitted to the vehicle were merely accessories, or ' bolt-on' additions, and not fundamental modifications. Were the applicant to tell a friend that he was driving a modified Ford Orion, the friend might well visualise a vehicle which had been dramatically changed, perhaps by the fitting of a different engine. Possibly, the analogy of a car adapted for rallying had some relevance, but if all that was meant was that a body kit had been fitted, the word ' modified' might be overstating the changes. Certainly, the Ombudsman was not persuaded that the word ' modified' was sufficient to alert policyholders to the need to disclose alterations of the kind which had taken place here. Accordingly, whatever information the insurer might have wished to know, the applicant had in fact made proper disclosure on the proposal in response to the question which was actually asked of him.

BN (94) 2 p. 5


2. Carburettors

Replacement of single-choke carburettor with twin-choke carburettor - whether vehicle had been ' modified'

Following the theft of his car, the insurer avoided the applicant' s policy and repudiated his claim on the ground that his car had been fitted with a Weber twin-choke carburettor rather than the standard Ford Capri single-choke unit. It asserted that this was a modification which should have been disclosed when he proposed for the insurance, and answered the question about whether the vehicle had been ' modified' . The insurer confirmed that had its underwriters been made aware of the twin choke-carburettor the proposal would not have been accepted.

A twin-choke carburettor was not a high performance unit and appeared to be fitted regularly to Ford Capris because the standard single-choke until was ineffective and prone to failure. The replacement would only have had a slight effect on performance. Many vehicles would have replacement parts fitted because the original was unsatisfactory, and many such parts would be superior to the original and perhaps increased performance to a small degree. This did not necessarily mean that they should be regarded as modifications. If insurers wished to know about any replacement parts they should ask more specific questions on their proposal forms. These points were put to the insurer which agreed to meet the claim.

BN (94) 2 p. 6


 
So basically, these Insurance Companies are going against the Insurance Ombudsmans guidelines and judgements by imposing extra fees for items fitted over and above the standard spec, or even if alloy wheels are fitted to a car that normally has steel wheels?

That is an eye opener!

Thanks Jim[:)]
 
Speaking of Norwich Union - my son recently wrote off his Mini Cooper S, with lots of extra goodies, and they have organised a new replacement, to his (new) spec.
It does what it says on the tin [:D]
I have no association or interest ... etc.

I wait to see what their quote is for a 987 [:(]
 
engineerjim,

Good post.

So what about an X50 upgrade, that is a 'standard' upgrade for the 996 turbo, but it could also be defined as a 'fundamental' change to the original specification?

 
Found this..

Below is a list produced by the Association of British Insurers of some of the typical modifications.
Alarms/immobilisers/tracking devices
Alloy wheels
Badges indicating increased performance
Blueprinting
Body kit
Bonnet bulge
Bored-out engine
Bull bars
Car phones
Chipping - engine management system change
Crash bars
Dashboard changes
Decals/stickers
Driving lights
Dual controls
Engine casing changes
Exhaust system changes
Flared wheelarches
Flared wings
Fog lamps
Front spoiler/airdam
Gearing change
Hand controls
High level brake light
Larger speakers
Locking wheel nuts
Miscellaneous engine alterations
Murals
Nitrous oxide kit fitted
Non standard paint work
Non-standard engine
Non-standard re-spray
Radiator bars
Rally lights
Rear roof spoiler
Rear spoiler/aerofoil
Rear valance
Replacement seats
Side skirts/sills
Slick tyres
Sports steering wheel
Spot lights
Standard engine replacement
Steering change
Stripes
Sunroof
Supercharging
Suspension changes
Tail lift
Towbar
Transmission changes
Trial tyres
Turbocharging
Upholstery changes
Uprated brakes
Uprated stereo systems
Wheel trims
Wider tyres
Wider wheels
 

Below is a list produced by the Association of British Insurers of some of the typical modifications.

Alarms/immobilisers/tracking devices: So they charge extra for these?
Badges indicating increased performance LOL! :)
Blueprinting : This just means taking maximum advantage of the tolerances in the engine. They are having a laugh...
Car phones : PCM owners - hope you've declared yours :(
Dashboard changes : Does this include the nodding dog?
Decals/stickers : Caravan club members beware!
Driving lights : Assume extra ones...
Dual controls : No arguments about who is in control now!
Fog lamps : Nasty safety features... :S
Hand controls : Discrimination is alive and well in the Insurance industry...
High level brake light : Damn - another naughty safety feature!
Locking wheel nuts : Ummmmm
Murals : Hope Phil Raby has declared his...
Radiator bars : What the heck is this?
Slick tyres : Thought those were illegal?
Sports steering wheel : Definition please?
Standard engine replacement : Not allowed to replace with those standard engines!
Stripes: Will insurance companies ever change thiers
Upholstery changes : Re-trimmed 944's beware!
Uprated brakes : GT3 owners beware!
Wheel trims : Halfords beware!
 
Hey guys there is always the option of Porsche's own insurance, which whilst not the cheapest is run by Norwich Union.

Everything fitted at the factory is covered including sports suspension, sat nav etc.

OK I'm one of the old guys on here and the car is insured by my wife but the premium is a very reasonable £850ish including protected bonus
 
I think the advertisers in the back of Porsche Post are probably a good bet too!
Why even try these non-specialist, mass-market places where you have to argue everything?
 
Esure wanted to charge me EXTRA for having a Tracker fitted ! The stupid girl on the quote line wanted to class it as a modification, when I was actually asking for a discount for having the device fitted [:eek:]
 
I spoke to the underwriter at First Alternative as i too wasnt happy about not being covered properly with elephant after declaring my fitted options and also being charged £100 more for no cover on the parts.
the underwriter clarified that my declared parts were non performance parts, teq. exhaust, wheel, handbrake, gearknob,air deflector,climate etc..... and that i would be fully insured on these parts in the event of a claim.
My premium was aslo £105 less than elephant for more cover,
The downside is the excess....£500 compulsory and 250 vol. He said this is the way they keep claims down, you crash and you pay if its your fault, non fault claims obviously you recover the excess anyway
Green card also costs if you require fully comp ins instead of the supplied 3rd party minimum the policy gives.

Elephant dont insure added options but charge extra for the theft risk
Liverpool Vic. dont insure any cars with added parts/factory options unless its just wheels and disability aids, also dont cover trackdays now
First Alternative seem to be the best of the cheapies for the moment
 

Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members

Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions.

Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible.

When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide.

Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned.

Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times.

Back
Top