Emulsifying in Water and Oil 966 Carerra 4S

richardjjs1 · Jun 4, 2014

I have a problem with the water/oil 100k miles

I have had small amounts of emulsifying in the water and again on the oil filler tube

Bought this car in December 2013 from a car dealer in Redditch

When I collected it had a annoying graunching noise in the transmission that he said he would fix after Christmas

I had the coolant changed with Porsche Coolant the Monday before Christmas, along with new Rear Tyres, Discs and Pads (Trying to sort out the noises)

True to his word he took the car to 4 Porsche specialists around Birmingham and the following work was carried out

Front diff stripped down twice and a new viscous coupling fitted, front drive shafts checked

New bearings fitted to Prop Shaft

Automatic Gearbox clutch linings replaced and torque convertor reconditioned (Not sure if Engine removed to do this - don't want to contact garage yet)

The noise significantly reduced and has now gone completely. Great work Mike thanks

The radiator cap was difficult to tighten and I did get some blow out of coolant so have now replaced the cap.

did 1800 miles around North West Scotland early last month with no problems at all (Except the number plate fell off!!!!)

Did the Area 13 run on Sunday (150 miles) and 100 miles to Birmingham yesterday

Found much more emulsifying in the water yesterday actually partly covered the cap - still small amounts in Oil Intake

If the specialist removed the engine is it possible that some water got mixed with the oil

Before panicking is it worth changing the oil and I can then check the old oil

Obviously it could be a head problem but is there anything else I can check

Car runs beautifully

I am a new member of the club - just received my membership number - next job is to get recognised as a member on the forum

Thanks in advance

(Please note I spent an hour earlier today and lost the post so sorry if this is a repeat

Richard_Hamilton · Jun 4, 2014

Mayo and water droplets in the filler tube are very common, and nothing to worry about. As long as there is no oil in the coolant, and the oil on the tip of the dip stick shows no sign of water, you will be fine.

richardjjs1 · Jun 4, 2014

There is MAYO in Coolant - see attached photo

Not sure if its water

Can you let me know how to change my Forum registration to Member

Have now received my membership number

saw a post somewhere but cant find it anywhere

Great book by the way

Thanks

richardjjs1 · Jun 4, 2014

a bit more info

Been round to F1 Autocentre they have some one who loves and knows Porsche

The old cap I have now replaced was leaking it did not go on tight he THINKS that it could be that or a loose connection apparently mayo in Coolant could be because of bad Cap or maybe bad joint

Please remember the engine has been out

He has suggested that I syphon out the header tank, fill it with Porsche Coolant (Which I have) Make sure the cap is tight and test it for a couple of days

I am going to Porsche Chester a week on Saturday for a club open day and they will check it out (Don't need to use it till then 45 miles away)

He feels that it is not serious

MOST IMPORTANT WHAT DO YOU THINK

Thanks

Richard_Hamilton · Jun 4, 2014

Try a post here: http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=235860 or email one of the Forum Administrators with your membership number and forum username.

Sorry - I thought you meant mayo in the oil filler tube, which is common. Mayo in the header tank doesn't sound good to me, so I would get it checked out asap. I can't really see why removing the engine would cause an intermix. Does any emulsion show in the sump oil on the tip of the dip stick when you pull it out? Water migrating from the oil to coolant systems (or vice-versa) is unlikely to be just a simple loose connection or cap, and it needs investigating.

richardjjs1 · Jun 4, 2014

Yes THanks

Now accessing the Forums as a member - have suggested to Paul that info on becoming a recognised member be easier to find

You have to email the Forum guy NOT Porsche its Paul McNulty

As a matter of interest the new cap is different to the old one

Will clean it all up and take it too Porsche Centre in Chester next Saturday

Water/Condensation coming from Somewhere

Like you expect it to be more difficult

Thanks

Richard

richardjjs1 · Jun 5, 2014

Spoken to three specialists

Worse case scenario is cracked cylinder liner or Cylinder head

Hartech will remove and rebuild the engine for 3500 + VAT pus major parts like cylinder liner and head

Car is excellent condition cant find anything like it to replace it (But probably will given time)

Had the Front end 4 wheel drive and Tiptronic rebuilt early this year

Love car just coming up to 100k

Cant do it till August

Do we know of any other specialist rebuilder who can do it earlier

Thanks

richard hall · Jun 5, 2014

Gosh

if it were me I'd wait
I am sure there are plenty of other guys who can build engines but this is what they do day in day out
when they strip it down you will get their considerable expertise on what needs replacing and what could be improved
I am certain they will warranty it and they will stand by it and, come resale the name itself will maintain the value of your pride and joy
they are a known quantity
however it is your money

as they say marry in haste..................[

]

ChrisW · Jun 5, 2014

Oil in the water is bad news, sorry.

I can't think of any service situation that could cause this.

And you must consider what corrosion damage is being done to the fine working surfaces by this water ....

I would seek qualified advice from a Porsche specialist ..

Wishing you the best of luck ... Chris

Chris_in_the_UK · Jun 5, 2014

Another vote to wait - will pay for itself in the long run and will be an asset in the cars history should you ever come to sell.

richardjjs1 · Jun 5, 2014

as they say marry in haste..................

_____________________________

Richard

In principle I agree with you

Apparently the problem is storing the car while they do the job

May look at getting another specialist to remove the engine and then Hartech will do it sooner

THen get it all put back again

The engine and gearbox has already been removed this year when the garage I bought it from rebuilt the front four wheel drive, prop shaft and auto box

Thi is the main reason that I am considering the job as surely there cant be much more to go wrong

As a matter of interest where are you

Thaks

richardjjs1 · Jun 5, 2014

best of luck ...

Chris

Thanks for the feed back

At the moment there is no Water in the OIls so no harm being done

Its a small amount of Oil in the water which SHOULD! do o harm as lons I I don't use the car

Have cleaned up the oil in the Coolant Tank has not marked it yet - Which I have been warned about

Where are you

Will advise

Thanks

richardjjs1 · Jun 5, 2014

Hi Guys
,
My slogan WAS 'Don't let your Heart rule your Head ' Not sure now

Richard_Hamilton · Jun 5, 2014

Rather than a complete rebuild, is it worth trying to get a specialist to try to find out exactly what is going on? Perhaps a complete coolant flush, run it for a while, and then get a coolant analysis done. Or they may have other ideas. Worth asking the question.

colin944 · Jun 5, 2014

I would take a step back from worrying about serious engine damage until you have a good specialist look at it. Hartech may have given you a quote but have they seen the car ?
I would go for a full oil and coolant change with a proper flush being used in both cases. Then I would run the car for a bit and carry out a sniff test on the coolant. If it shows gases or oil in the coolant then go back to Hartech for a rebuild. It is however entirely possible that who ever took the engine out could have induced a bit of cross contamination of your coolant and oil through a less than professional approach to the work or even using the same container an funnel to fill both ( I've seen that done with cat car getting 50 mls of oil in the coolant ). The best thing to do with situations like this is to eliminate the easy and obvious options before assuming the worst and spending a small fortune that you could you to buy other things for your car.

richardjjs1 · Jun 6, 2014

I would take a step back from worrying about serious engine damage until you have a good specialist look at it. Hartech may have given you a quote but have they seen the car ? I would

This is exactly what thought before speaking with the expects

When I bought the car a Christmas It had a graunching noise in the transmission which the dealer said he would sort out

He took it to a specialist in Redditch who said it was the front diff and that was stripped and rebuilt with a new viscous coupling

Before this I took it to a specialist in Telford who spent 3/4 hour driving the car so we could replicate the problem and we decided it was when it change up from 3rd slowly He said it was the gearbox and HE WAS CORRECT

Job sorted by Meridan Garage and paid for by the Dealer (4.5k in all) ENGINE NOT REMOVED

Did he use NEW Coolant? Don't Know

Was it flushed? Shouldn't think so

The guy who said it was the Gearbox has also said its something serious and to get rid But has not seen it

Totally agree about checking easies first when I had a quattro oe of the specialist always looked and blamed the ECU our local Audi Mechanic said check the fuse box first. Obviously not relavant here but check first is a great idea

On way to get Water Flushed

Does anybody know if water cools anything in the gearbox as this WAS removed along with the torque convertor

Will see in Hartech can perform a check sooner rather than later

I am going to Porsche CHester next Friday for PCGB Meeting where perhaps they could do a check

THANKS EVERYBODY

richardjjs1 · Jun 6, 2014

Yes, it appears that the Tiptronic 'box has a water/oil heat exchanger Richard ( http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/originalparts/en/E_996_KATALOG.pdf Illustration 360-00).

This really is getting interesting - thanks

I have a date for 16 June with Hartech so its not so far off but gives me time to check other things

Where is the Tiptronic Water/Oil Heat Exchanger on the car cant find it at present

More worrying is I could it damage the Tiptronic

There is no water in the Engine oil (AS far as I can see)

The ingress into the water is almost like a silicone feel very smooth

Thanks

colin944 · Jun 6, 2014

It seems to be the case with these cars that as soon as you say anything about oil and water everyone tells you its a knackered engine. I would trust what Hartec tell you'll probably find it's just a seal in the gearbow cooling set up.

Richard_Hamilton · Jun 6, 2014

The coolant should feel 'smooth' anyway. The inhibitors make it feel slightly like baby oil.

The cooling water/ATF heat exchanger is mounted on the Tiptronic box.

richardjjs1 · Jun 6, 2014

I don't actually have a real problem with having the Engine rebuilt. Certainly if it was an earlier car.

My first car was a mini van which I rebuild the gearbox and clutch a number of time and have been a amateur mechanic since them (Rebuild a five speed Maxi and a number of quattro)

The one thing I have learned is to start with the cheapest thing - which in electronics is the replace a fuse in the fuse box NOT REPLACE THE ECU!!!

The other thing I now avoid is 'While its stripped down you might as well ....' - Did this to my quattros and spent a fortune 'Might as welling'
So I want to fix what is wrong

At Hartech's suggestion I am going to flush and degrease the system and see what happens.
I can then make sure any ingress is current and will have some idea of the problem
Will obviously check oil level (again) and see if that drops

I don't want to rebuild the engine only to find it was the Tiptronic Heat Unit.

Perhaps need to get this tested first

Interestingly enough Hartech are erring on the side of a Cylinder Head problem They have seen very few Head Gaskets go. They don't repair Heads and will either fit a new one (2k) or a rebuilt one from another supplier (800 - 1000) No guarantee)
However Autofarm will rebuild a head with a guarantee

So what do I do now!!!

Autofarm will do lots of investigation but do they have the knowledge to get the engine right if its knackered

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