Engine build progress
- Thread starter TTM
- Start date
TTM
Well-known member
Just bumping this thread up as I have been scratching my hair in the last weeks over what to do with the original exhaust. I have read things that suggest, like barks944 shortly suggested in the "Turbo back pressure" topic, that the piping mating to the turbine should be the same diameter as the turbine outlet itself, and that it should expand later as a tapered piping. The turbine outlet on my SPS turbo is 57mm, like the usual KKK turbine. I'm lucky enough to have a single wall factory downpipe which is 61mm instead of the usual 56mm seen on most, double wall downpipes. At this point of development of my set up the thought of having to take off the turbo to install a 3" downpipe and install back a KKK turbine bothers me. I have been in touch with a 951 specialist in Germany (= not too far from me) who makes nice 3" piping - I don't like the idea of spending $$$ in shipping and import taxes associated to ordering a full 3" system from Lindsey. At this point I am leaning towards doing things easy by keeping the single wall downpipe and installing 3" piping behind. Would you consider this vain? Am I likely to see significant gains by increasing exhaust piping but keeping the same downpipe? Ultimately I wish to install a full Garrett GT turbo and have a full 3" exhaust custom-made by a local welder I have talked to, but my wallet says it's not likely to happen before at best next year.
If your going to do it next year and the car is running well as it is then it doesn't warrant spending the cash in my opinion. You will have to taper the front pipe down to 61mm smoothly to fit the downpipe and that will mean that you will have to mod that section if and when you go to a 3 inch downpipe. Am I right in thinking your knock issues are under control now with the standalone? If so leave well alone and enjoy the car as it is until you can get to the full Garrett setup.
TTM
Well-known member
Yes my Vi-PEC set up is very good. It blows away the Vitesse stuff by a fair margin. I checked the spark plugs yesterday and they never were that clean with the old ignition. Still some small but persistant issues to sort out, trying to understand why coolant temp goes past 100°C whenever I push the car a bit. I just don't understand why it builds heat so quickly. It almost wants to run with the fans always on high speed. How is your engine doing Jarmo? On another note Sly is nearly done with the overhaul of his new daily 944S (clutch replacement, belts, camshafts timing adjustment) and he will soon start his 3.XL 16V turbo engine build. The goal is to do a budget engine. Should be fun and challenging [
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]Thom, I had the same issues you have with cooling all the time I was running a front mount intercooler that blocked airflow. First time round was a 951 intercooler mounted down low, probably not a million miles away from the way the SFR intercooler is mounted. This was like putting a large brick in front of the radiator and was never going to help cooling. Second time round was a ninemeister intercooler and radiator, which also suffered from the same issues although that time I dont think it was airflow, never really got to the bottom of it. Finally a new intercooler specifically designed to sit in front of the factory radiator and also with a lot of intercooling capacity, which brought down intake and coolant temps together. I also think the 3.0 block is a lot more reliant on oil cooling (although I know you have fitted an additional cooler now) and you may also be experiencing higher exhaust gas temps if your timing is too retarded, which will make the water run hotter putting more pressure on your coolant system.
Thom I haven't actually driven my car yet this summer. I did several improvements during winter which I hope will address the cooling issues: -new intercooler with better air flow to radiator -new stock radiator -new 40 row Setrab oil cooler (located under co driver's headlight) -13 row Mocal oil cooler for power steering fluid (I had two of these for oil cooling previously so I reused one of them, it's located under the driver's headlight along with the air filter) Plus Garrett gt3076R installation and new headlights to accomodate oil and ps coolers. It's been very slow going but it looks like I'll get it ready at the end of this week. Basically what's still missing is the covers for the headlights. I have the form ready so I am almost there! Luckily my summer holiday just started so I have more time to work with the car.[] Well, before the baby is born anyway..[]
] Well, before the baby is born anyway..[]Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures during turbo installation. I used CEP turbo mount and oil drain set up. Dave's parts are great value! Cross over and downpipe are from SFR. Those didn't fit without a lot of work. I guess it's because they are meant to be installed on stock mount with an ATP adapter. Anyway it is a tight fit and the downpipe is very close to upper balance shaft cover. Also I had to modify some of the stock heatshields and the one covering the AOS is now completely homemade. I can't wait to drive the car again.. Although I am worried if the ignition map (which was originally made for quite a bit laggier lindsey turbo) is not suitable for the Garrett I have now?
TTM
Well-known member
After a few inquiries it has become clear to me that SFR exhaust parts hardly ever were bolt-on. Jarmo, do you have the V-flex option with your Vitesse set-up? If yes the boost-based ignition control should help. I am leaving the car in the garage until the weathers gets fresher. These days I have had a better time playing with spanners in my cool garage than wasting fuel driving a mobile oven with rock hard suspension on poor roads I want to definitely get rid of some minor issues I have never bothered looking into as the engine worked fine since the ECU upgrade. For some time now it's been badly smelling burned oil whenever I didn't push it hard enough or let it idle for too long. My understanding is that the turbo is burning oil through its seals when the engine is idling because the 3L block creates an amount of crankcase pressure that in my case isn't relieved into the atmosphere, as I haven't used the original pressure relief valve on the rubber elbow on top of the AOS as used on later cars. I used an '86 duct instead that made without valve. Nick, what is your crankcase ventilation set up like and do you use this valve? While I have the intake off I might have the turbo checked and do something with the exhaust.
Jamol, you built in intercooler like mine right? I hope that it works as well for you as it has so far for me (I have yet to test it on the track in summer). I am going the same route as you with the GT turbo etc but waiting for parts that have been on back order for a while. Thom, I did have a catch can that vented back into the intercooler pipe pre TB if I remember correctly. I removed it as it never had a single drop of oil in it and I did not like the install that was done by someone else as it was messy and the catch can location was poor. When I removed it I went back to the pipe with the valve you speak of above which is found on the later cars. I have only run it for a few miles after I overhauled all the pipes in the engine bay last summer as I am waiting on some more parts to get it finished prior to dynoing the car again. I have made a lot of mods since I last visited the dyno and have a few more to do before I go back so patience is the key for me now!
Thom: My Vitesse set up is from 2005 so no V-flex. I have considered updating Vitesse stuff but the cost for that is not reasonable in my opinion. I have been in contact with Vic regarding ViPec. I am sure I can manage the fuel tuning but it's getting the ignition values right that bothers me. Decisions.. Nick: Yes, my IC is similar looking to yours. I'll try to post some pics after I have finished the headlights. (which looks like it takes much more work I thought it would..[])
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TTM
Well-known member
Vic from Pauertuning explained me how to adjust throttle-based boost control. When the usual 944 turbo engine behaviour has the turbo get into full boost as soon as it wants depending on boost ramp adjustment, throttle-based boost control means I can adjust with good precision how much boost I want depending how wide I open the throttle - straight result being the engine feeling like it's normally-aspirated. Heart-in-mouth moments on relatively slow and narrow country roads are now a thing of the past as power delivery is much better and easily controlled. I am still grinning ear to ear from the latest drive []
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TTM
Well-known member
To the best of my knowledge I don't think the KLR does this as none of the cars running around the original DME/KLR set-up I have driven ever felt boost could be controlled with as much precision. I ignore if it can be modified to do it and I have never read/heard about it. This is a great feature that I would suggest you to strongly look into for your new ECU!
The reason I was wondering if it did is purely because I couldnt see any other reason for it having a true TPS sensor which gives the actual position of the throttle rather than simply giving closed and WOT signals. I can't see where else the KLR would use it... Yeah throttle based boost control is high on the list!
TTM
Well-known member
Some news from the southern workshop [] The last four days were particularly productive. We eventually put Sly's new 944 S daily driver back on its wheels, it's been running quite well. It went nesting at the back of his garage right after he bought it last year as it needed a new clutch. While in there he checked the chain and tensioner, readjusted the camshafts, checked the timing belt, took the whole intake off for a check. We replaced the clutch some weeks ago but didn't have the time to install back the gearbox and exhaust until Thursday so now it's done at last. This is the very first S we have been working on, and we were stunned at how complex and long the intake is. The butterfly is right at the back of the engine, about just over the speed reference sensor. Makes us wonder what motivated such an odd design! We then replaced the front discs on Sly's turbo with standard M030 discs and cleaned the front calipers with the pistons off. The cross drilled discs he had been using for the last two years are completely shot, probably due to intense abuse with Carbone Lorraine brake pads. We also replaced the cyl 2/3 exhaust manifold which was broken. We took part of the exhaust and the turbo off my car in anticipation of a full 3" exhaust installation which I should receive in a month or so. We also found the time to install a massive, $90 worth of front intercooler on Sly's car. Pictures to follow.
] The last four days were particularly productive. We eventually put Sly's new 944 S daily driver back on its wheels, it's been running quite well. It went nesting at the back of his garage right after he bought it last year as it needed a new clutch. While in there he checked the chain and tensioner, readjusted the camshafts, checked the timing belt, took the whole intake off for a check. We replaced the clutch some weeks ago but didn't have the time to install back the gearbox and exhaust until Thursday so now it's done at last. This is the very first S we have been working on, and we were stunned at how complex and long the intake is. The butterfly is right at the back of the engine, about just over the speed reference sensor. Makes us wonder what motivated such an odd design! We then replaced the front discs on Sly's turbo with standard M030 discs and cleaned the front calipers with the pistons off. The cross drilled discs he had been using for the last two years are completely shot, probably due to intense abuse with Carbone Lorraine brake pads. We also replaced the cyl 2/3 exhaust manifold which was broken. We took part of the exhaust and the turbo off my car in anticipation of a full 3" exhaust installation which I should receive in a month or so. We also found the time to install a massive, $90 worth of front intercooler on Sly's car. Pictures to follow.
Just ordered a Fabspeed 3 inch front pipe and sport cat + test pipe, the end section will have to be custom made to suit the 968. This will mate up perfectly to my Fabspeed 2.75 inch downpipe as their front pipe has a 2.75 inch flange where it mates to the downpipe which then immediately flares out to 3 inch pipe. I figured this smooth transition was the best way forward to minimise any turbulence hence sticking to the matching parts. Also I think the Fabspeed kit is great quality and fitment is good.ORIGINAL: TTM Some news from the southern workshop [
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