Engine removal
- Thread starter usermjg
- Start date
I have had the same shock...[
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38F3E1
PCGB Member
It's also the way you used to take beetle engines out. Large winch from the roof joist down to the bumper mounts. One the engine was loose then winch the whole of the rear of the car up and wheel out the engine. I have wondered why I have never seen it done on a 911 - I guess nothing solid to attach the winch to.
Ian.
Ian.
I have tried this method ages ago.
You use the engine cross beam. There is a big slot by the pully and you noose the engine there. Lift the whole car on it (no probs) with the hoist to the required height. Axle stand the car and disconnect all the things you need to inc slacken the 4 big bolts. Place the trolly if you have one under the engine and lower the whole car down so the engine just sits on it. Remove the 4 big bolts (depending on the height of the trolly, this can be a pain reaching the gearbox ones, engine ones easy).
Lit the shell off the engine.
The fun can start there as the engine does not drop out cleanly, it needs some wriggles and swear words (I have the right magic words...)
Putting it back in this way is tricks as aligning the gearbox big bolts need spot-on skills and everything you are dealing with is heavy and unbalanced.
I tried this once and didn't do it again.
Personal choice I think at the end of the day?
Interesting chat though.
Graham.
You use the engine cross beam. There is a big slot by the pully and you noose the engine there. Lift the whole car on it (no probs) with the hoist to the required height. Axle stand the car and disconnect all the things you need to inc slacken the 4 big bolts. Place the trolly if you have one under the engine and lower the whole car down so the engine just sits on it. Remove the 4 big bolts (depending on the height of the trolly, this can be a pain reaching the gearbox ones, engine ones easy).
Lit the shell off the engine.
The fun can start there as the engine does not drop out cleanly, it needs some wriggles and swear words (I have the right magic words...)
Putting it back in this way is tricks as aligning the gearbox big bolts need spot-on skills and everything you are dealing with is heavy and unbalanced.
I tried this once and didn't do it again.
Personal choice I think at the end of the day?
Interesting chat though.
Graham.
vitesse
Active member
As nobody mentions removing the engine lid,I presume you have to cut a slot in it to clear the hoist chain & then be very careful with the loose chain as you use the hoist to avoid denting the paintwork.[]As I want to replace the tinwork on the 964 at some stage,& do it myself as I want to be able to galvanise the stuff,I am very interested in this post.Certainly,lifting the car off the engine seems to use better physics,& PET shows a special tray to fit to the engine bottom,I think.This is getting to sound like a surgical procedure.Carry on,please.
I notice ,Hillclimber that you haven't used one of those "hay" baskets to support the engine,I don't see the need for it when the engine stands have the adjustable pick-up brackets.
]As I want to replace the tinwork on the 964 at some stage,& do it myself as I want to be able to galvanise the stuff,I am very interested in this post.Certainly,lifting the car off the engine seems to use better physics,& PET shows a special tray to fit to the engine bottom,I think.This is getting to sound like a surgical procedure.Carry on,please.I notice ,Hillclimber that you haven't used one of those "hay" baskets to support the engine,I don't see the need for it when the engine stands have the adjustable pick-up brackets.
The Hay Basket frames are great as they fit the engine block perfectly. I'm too tight for that so cut a part slot in each of the 4 mounting tubes to allow the 4 arms to bolt cleanly to the block clearing the flywheel. That was about 20 years ago literally and it has been fine.
The engine on the stand is from my Lola project, a 3.2, but it is the same as my last 2.4's and the 2.2 before those.
As to removing the engine lid? Good if you can, but I've never bothered as I j-u-s-t get way with it (early 911 lid remember, no electic spoiler etc)
When I lifted that time on the engine cross beam, I used a series of small 'D' shackles as I thought the steel edge of the hole in the beam too sharp for a tow rope and possible failure of the lift..[]
Graham.
The engine on the stand is from my Lola project, a 3.2, but it is the same as my last 2.4's and the 2.2 before those.
As to removing the engine lid? Good if you can, but I've never bothered as I j-u-s-t get way with it (early 911 lid remember, no electic spoiler etc)
When I lifted that time on the engine cross beam, I used a series of small 'D' shackles as I thought the steel edge of the hole in the beam too sharp for a tow rope and possible failure of the lift..[
]Graham.
I use a load of scaffold tubes to make two A frames for the sides and then connect them across. I then use a lever hoist to do the lifting.
I only need this to get the engine moved around and to lift it back into position in the car.
I just use a jack to drop the engine, although it's not that easy as I don't have a jack that will drop the full amount required. I have to take out blocks of wood etc from under the jack.
I do find I have to sit the front of the car on small/normal axle stands.
I tried to remove my engine cover but, the problem was the wires. I had no alternative but to cut the wiring and my car (the carrera) is very very original and there is no way that is something I would do to this car.
It would be easier with it removed but I can manage.
I paid once to have my engine dropped and they used a proper engine hoist but it was a nuisance with how the car was supported, kept hitting the axle stands. At least with scaffolding it is customisable.
I only need this to get the engine moved around and to lift it back into position in the car.
I just use a jack to drop the engine, although it's not that easy as I don't have a jack that will drop the full amount required. I have to take out blocks of wood etc from under the jack.
I do find I have to sit the front of the car on small/normal axle stands.
I tried to remove my engine cover but, the problem was the wires. I had no alternative but to cut the wiring and my car (the carrera) is very very original and there is no way that is something I would do to this car.
It would be easier with it removed but I can manage.
I paid once to have my engine dropped and they used a proper engine hoist but it was a nuisance with how the car was supported, kept hitting the axle stands. At least with scaffolding it is customisable.
We all use the tools available to us and the circumstances rule the day. If you are removing the lump on a sloping driveway it sure is more difficult than doing it in a double width garage...
I hired a hoist once and the thing failed on me with the full weight of the lump on it with me close to underneath the lot. Hydraulic ram seal failed under load...[:-]
Went and bought a new one that morning. Still have it after 15 years of infrequent use.
I hired a hoist once and the thing failed on me with the full weight of the lump on it with me close to underneath the lot. Hydraulic ram seal failed under load...[:-]
Went and bought a new one that morning. Still have it after 15 years of infrequent use.
vitesse
Active member
Graham,
This is what I'd define as "a really useful thread",so is it possible to summarise the most salient points?-like;-
a/Providing you can get the wheels off & disconnect the driveshafts,which is the best side to leave the most room(car facing as driving) in a single width garage?
b/If you can easily remove the engine lid(cover),does this make the job quite a bit easier(single handed).
c/Is the best method still to make a trolley ,use a jack under it & lower the engine from a jacked up car? and /or does having the ability to also hoist the car help significantly?
d/Is it best to leave the exhaust on,as Gary's photo?
e/Do you tie up out of the way all the connections in a particular way apart from the gearchange shaft,so that you can jack up the engine easily when refitting without trapping anything?
etc.
Colin.
This is what I'd define as "a really useful thread",so is it possible to summarise the most salient points?-like;-
a/Providing you can get the wheels off & disconnect the driveshafts,which is the best side to leave the most room(car facing as driving) in a single width garage?
b/If you can easily remove the engine lid(cover),does this make the job quite a bit easier(single handed).
c/Is the best method still to make a trolley ,use a jack under it & lower the engine from a jacked up car? and /or does having the ability to also hoist the car help significantly?
d/Is it best to leave the exhaust on,as Gary's photo?
e/Do you tie up out of the way all the connections in a particular way apart from the gearchange shaft,so that you can jack up the engine easily when refitting without trapping anything?
etc.
Colin.
if i do go ahead and drop the engine gearbox then im going to:
1:Revearse car onto drive
2:Jack the back up, place on Axle stands
3: Remove engine lid
4: Make an engine trolley
5: Follow steps in 101 Project for Porsche 911 (engine removal)
6:Lower onto trolley using jack and hoist
7rag lump into Garage, phone family and friends and glot how i managed to do it with out breaking it.[]
8: Work on engine/gearbox in warm garage with room, as car is still on drive.
1:Revearse car onto drive
2:Jack the back up, place on Axle stands
3: Remove engine lid
4: Make an engine trolley
5: Follow steps in 101 Project for Porsche 911 (engine removal)
6:Lower onto trolley using jack and hoist
7
rag lump into Garage, phone family and friends and glot how i managed to do it with out breaking it.[]8: Work on engine/gearbox in warm garage with room, as car is still on drive.
This has become a bit of an epic! Good chatter though.
I assume here you are a good spanner man, and will do the right things such as blocking off fuel pipes etc, and if it looks dangerous, it is, so do it carefully or another way. This lump is just that, big, heavy and very awkward at times.
You will have good tools, a big can of WD40 and a lot of Swarfega/gloves. A colourful vocabulary is essential to charm the awkward bits free....
In my single handed experience of this subject and having done it in a single and double width garage:
Reverse car into the garage but only as far as the rear half in in the garage. You will need the space later! Get the near side of the car close to the wall. You can leave the rear wheel on on that side.
Jack up the rear with a high lift jack onto a thick/wide wood plank directly parallel to the rear edge of the floor pan. Support the whole car on axle stands at max height. From Gary's pic you can see how high it needs to be to clear the fan/carbs/filter when on the trolley.
Undo everything I've said before and slacken the 4 Big Bolts a turn or 2, no more. You can work from one side and shimmy (?) under the car to get to the drive shaft on the near side of the car, so get that side close to the one side wall of the single garage as a preference. All the oil pipes are on the off side. These pipes can be quite a tease to get off...so you need room.
Take the weight of the lump on the hoist. Removing the engine lid will calm the nerves if you are not sure of the hoist, so worth doing. Place the car jack under the lump between the oil engine drain and the clutch arm. Get the hoise and the jack to take the strian. Undo the 4 Big Bolts. The lump will drop/move (about 20mm) so be ready and out of the way.
Have a coffee/beer.
Ease the jack down and (incrementally) ease the hoist down together, bit by bit. Watch out for the gear selector input shaft resting on the rear floorpan/bulkhead at this stage. It can get bent if strained too much! Get the lump down to the point the jack has to come out. Place the trolly under the suspended lump. Gary's is the de-lux model, but exactly right. Ease down the lump onto the trolley. Pull the trolly/lump free of the car into the garage. Take 2 good long cable ties and lassoo each drive shaft to the rear damper top turrets level to stop them dragging on the ground etc. Cover the exposed CV's with food freezer bags and seal with tape. You do not want any grit in those!
Lower the very light rear end to the ground and wheel the car forward to give lots of room to work on the lump.
Split the engine/box and with the hoist, get the engine on the Clark engine stand (that hoist is becoming a Useful Thing to Have!)
Have a beer, sod the coffee; You Deserve It.
Replacement is roughly the reverse but takes much longer, but things are much cleaner too.
Be sure to clean the engine bay with a pressure washer etc, it will be well worth it.
Hope this lot helps. Graham.
I assume here you are a good spanner man, and will do the right things such as blocking off fuel pipes etc, and if it looks dangerous, it is, so do it carefully or another way. This lump is just that, big, heavy and very awkward at times.
You will have good tools, a big can of WD40 and a lot of Swarfega/gloves. A colourful vocabulary is essential to charm the awkward bits free....
In my single handed experience of this subject and having done it in a single and double width garage:
Reverse car into the garage but only as far as the rear half in in the garage. You will need the space later! Get the near side of the car close to the wall. You can leave the rear wheel on on that side.
Jack up the rear with a high lift jack onto a thick/wide wood plank directly parallel to the rear edge of the floor pan. Support the whole car on axle stands at max height. From Gary's pic you can see how high it needs to be to clear the fan/carbs/filter when on the trolley.
Undo everything I've said before and slacken the 4 Big Bolts a turn or 2, no more. You can work from one side and shimmy (?) under the car to get to the drive shaft on the near side of the car, so get that side close to the one side wall of the single garage as a preference. All the oil pipes are on the off side. These pipes can be quite a tease to get off...so you need room.
Take the weight of the lump on the hoist. Removing the engine lid will calm the nerves if you are not sure of the hoist, so worth doing. Place the car jack under the lump between the oil engine drain and the clutch arm. Get the hoise and the jack to take the strian. Undo the 4 Big Bolts. The lump will drop/move (about 20mm) so be ready and out of the way.
Have a coffee/beer.
Ease the jack down and (incrementally) ease the hoist down together, bit by bit. Watch out for the gear selector input shaft resting on the rear floorpan/bulkhead at this stage. It can get bent if strained too much! Get the lump down to the point the jack has to come out. Place the trolly under the suspended lump. Gary's is the de-lux model, but exactly right. Ease down the lump onto the trolley. Pull the trolly/lump free of the car into the garage. Take 2 good long cable ties and lassoo each drive shaft to the rear damper top turrets level to stop them dragging on the ground etc. Cover the exposed CV's with food freezer bags and seal with tape. You do not want any grit in those!
Lower the very light rear end to the ground and wheel the car forward to give lots of room to work on the lump.
Split the engine/box and with the hoist, get the engine on the Clark engine stand (that hoist is becoming a Useful Thing to Have!)
Have a beer, sod the coffee; You Deserve It.
Replacement is roughly the reverse but takes much longer, but things are much cleaner too.
Be sure to clean the engine bay with a pressure washer etc, it will be well worth it.
Hope this lot helps. Graham.
Removing the engine cover does make the job much easier, it's nice to see what you are doing and saves your back. It won't get damaged then either.
Removing the exhaust is asking for trouble! Very time consuming and very expensive if it breaks...
Oh, when you go to split the tranny from the engine remove all the clutch levers, you should only have the spline left!
Removing the exhaust is asking for trouble! Very time consuming and very expensive if it breaks...
Oh, when you go to split the tranny from the engine remove all the clutch levers, you should only have the spline left!
If I recal you must remove the arm off the cable clutch splined shaft to get the fork out of the release bearing as it will not rotate enough to clear?
The 3.2 Omega spring assister is a nice mode to do.
The 3.2 Omega spring assister is a nice mode to do.
Yes, that's right Graham. I learnt the hard way and spent about an hour trying to split them...
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