first 993 perhaps

[farquare]

Firstly hello - I'm a newbie poster here so go easy,

Yesterday I went to look at a 993 on a whim. This weekend was actually set aside to go and view a Maserati Ghibli but unfortunately it sold before I was able to make the trip down south. I decided to go and take a look at a 993 in a showroom close to where I live, the car can be found on the following link:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-Porsche-911-993-Coupe-Manual-6-Speed-/400290780989?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item5d3330973d

I knew that the car was cat c before I went to view it, I also expected it to be quite ratty but I have to be honest - I kind of fell for it in the flesh. The paintwork is pretty clean save for a few bubbles on the NS rain gutter where it meets the roof and a small chip on the OS headlight housing.

The interior is crisp and with the exception of the aftermarked headunit it is a pretty pleasing cabin.

Now, I don't claim to be a Porsche expert so I spent the last day reading the buyers guides and the FAQ's in detail to try to arm myself with a little more info on these strange and exotic machines. I have arranged a test drive for next weekend where I will be looking for common problem areas such as bubbling and rust around lower screen seals, excess movement in bumpers, suspension, brake feel as well as getting a overall feel for the car.

Which leads me to my 1st question: having driven only pre a '89 3.2 (heavy steering on the move, heavy peadals, smell of oil, pre g50 box so no 1st on the approach to junctions, smoke on idle after long stands etc) and a 996 which was smooth quiet, modern and alltogether a different beastie; what should I expect from the 993? Given the aircooled heritage I'd expect it to be more like the pre '89 would this be a fair assumption to make?

Mechanicals wise I'm no stranger to skinning my nuckles and tackling a large chunk of car maintenance myself. My initial thoughts on the flat 6 were that;
1) there appeared to be no visable signes of oil below the car (car was cold and had been in situ for a week or so - they didn't know I was coming),
2) there was a bit of blue smoke on start up - are these cars liable to smoke on idle like the older models if they have been sitting for a while?
3) engine sounded good - no rattles bumps or whines and seemed to ilde from stone cold with an ambient temp of c.5 deg
4) car was fitted with a K&N style filter which I would have thought would be a nightmare in a tight bay like a 911 due to heat soak - do these cars run a MAF? If so does the oil from these filters have a negative effect on the mafs like you would find for example on VAG models?

I noticed that there was a Porsche Club GB sticker in the front window so my search brought me onto this site, I was hoping to trawl about for a while and find out some info about this specific model - but after about 3 hours of searching I don't seem to be able to find any reference to this specific car. Does anybody on here know anything about it's history?

I am prepared to walk away from this car, but my plan is to test it on the weekend. IF I like the way it performs I will be arranging an inspection hopefully through RPM (Glasgow), Motortune (Shotts) or SP Autobahn (Stirling) to give the car a full going over to see if there is anything wrong that I am not able to spot.

If anyone knows anything about this car (either positive or negative) that would help me with my decision, feel free to add it to this thread or PM me if you'd rather.
Additionally if anyone has had dealings with the company in question I'd be interested in hearing about them.

Unfortunately I don't think the salesman had a great deal of knowledge about the car - I have had a quick look through the folder of receipts but will be going back over them - especially the folder of correspondance from the dvla.

Is there anything I've overlooked? Any advice or pointers in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[williaa68]

The 993's are a lot more modern than the older cars. There are much more knowledgeable people on here who can explain why but a different suspension set up, air con that works etc. They don't drive like an "old" car in my view. All the stuff about "the last of the air cooled" etc is generally true. I fell in love the first time I drove one and have been looking for a good one for a while. Incidentally I recently spoke to SP autoworks about a PPI and found them very knowledgeable so if your own poking about is ok then worth asking them.

Cant help with the other questions except a bit of smoke is characteristic of the flat six but two things about a Cat C:

(1) unless it is really cheap, and this one isn't, I'd want chapter and verse on why it was Cat C - photos of the work done etc. I'd think about a D at the right price, a C I'd always be wary of.

(2) if part of your rationale is future appreciation then I don't think a cat C car will really participate. It will also always be difficult to sell on.

Anyway, good luck whatever you decide.

Andrew

 

[jdpef356]

No salesman can have any 'history' type knowledge about the car, other than what paper work is supplied - Im sure you can read this yourself.

If you really like the car you must talk to the previous owner and obtain full information on history and Cat C.

If it was me I would take the test drive and then start looking for one with proper history and no Cat C/D.

Good cars are out there, not easy to find, if you have the money you are in the driving seat, but will need to move quickly since good ones dont hang around.

Enjoy your search its the first part of ownership![]

 

[clyde]

Don't recall ever seeing it at any of the R1 events I've been at but maybe a posting on the Scotland forum will reveal a bit more information on it.

I'm with Andrew on the Cat C front - it doesn't seem cheap enough for me but maybe there's a fair bit of negotiating room there.

993s do smoke on start up - I find this especially so if it's been put away cold, for example the day after washing if I don't take it for a run before garaging it. It's just a bit of oil running past the piston rings and nothing to worry about, so long as it goes away after the initial burst on start up.

The driving experience is pretty much in the middle between the 3.2 and the 996. Much more modern to drive than the 3.2 but not as sanitised as the 996.

Just because you didn't see any oil below where it was parked doesn't mean it's not leaking - the engine under tray can trap fairly large amount of oil. The engines are generally quite tight but are especially prone to leak at the two lower cam covers. It's not a huge job to replace the gaskets though.

The 993 does have a MAF and according to some an oiled air filter can affect it's operation, so I would personally steer clear of them.

I would also look at the wheels on this one because they do not appear to be the correct offset at the rear and project beyond the arch (possibly 996 wheels?). In any event, 18" cup 3s are much heavier than the 17" cup 2s the car normally rides on even if they are genuine Porsche, giving undesirable extra unsprung weight. If they're aftermarket they will weigh significantly more and may have a significantly adverse effect on the handling of the car.

You've covered most of the common problem areas but also check the inside faces of the discs for signs of corrosion - at best this could mean new discs at £120 odd a corner plus pads, at worst it could be the calipers need a bit of work to remove corrosion below the steel plates. Not a big job but can lead to issues getting the securing screws out, so generally not too cheap.

 

[tallmat]

The big challenge with a CAT C rebuild is insurance. I looked into buying a 993 that was a CAT C car about 2 years ago, it came with a full dossier of the damage it had suffered in a heavy front ender, and pix of the rebuild.

Despite all the history, really struggled to get insurance at a sensible price. Only one gave me a quote that was sensible but subject to an engineers report. So I commissioned that (£175!), sent it to insurers, who promptly upped the excess to a level that made the policy hardly worth having.

Those insurers that will look at a CAT C performance car will scrutinise closely the causes for it being classified as such (remember another insurer has previously deemed it uneconomic to repair) and want to know every detail about the repair, and probably require an independent report.

So as others says above, see what history the dealer has. Otherwise it looks nice!

Good luck

 

[Alan Woods]

From my experience of the "exacting" nature of prospective 993 purchasers I think a Cat C would be very, very hard to sell on apart from a knockdown price to the trade.

 

[Dylan1]

Agree with all the above-I sold my 90 k 1996 example a yr ago for less money!!and it was immaculate.i reckon the price would be fine if it wasn't cat c but that must bring it down at least 2 k .14-15 k is max I would pay,or you stand no chance on resale.but hey no if you like it and can afford to lose your shirt then go for it[]

 

[Gordon Attar]

That particular car has been for sale for a long time (6-9 months), because of the cat c and secondly the colour is hard to sell.

You ideally need to see pictures of the damage and get an insurance quote before having an inspection.

If it stacks up and you happy dont be scared to start your bartering at £14k, they will be happy to get rid of it !

 

[farquare]

Thanks for all your input, firstly I will not be afraid to haggle over price here, I've seen cat c cars for sub 15k so I would be offering no more than that.

I also know that the car has been for sale for a while, which as mentioned could mean they will take a sub optimal offer to move it on.

with regards to the colour, I've noticed a few comments on other forums that the colour is one of the worst Porsche colours. I actually like it, I used to have a calypso green mk2 golf gti and I liked the fact I never seen another the same colour on the road. the car really does look better in real life than in photos.

I have spoken to lancaster today (they also gave me a good quote on the maserati) and as long as the engineers report is present they are happy to insure for market value for around £500 which considering im still less than 30 I don't consider to be too bad.

I will be going through the history very closely after the test drive on saturday and if there is anything I don't like the look of I will be walking away or expecting negotiation on price.

I don't really care too much about resale, this will just be a toy and a fulfillment of a boyhood dream, realistically a car like this will never achieve top dollar but if I bought it it would be a long term keeper, would be cared for and moreover it would be driven and enjoyed not wrapped in cotton wool. I'd feel much more comfortable racking up 100k miles in this rather than a 30k minter (not withstanding the fact I probably couldn't justify buying a top conditon car).

lastly I wasn't able to contact any companies about pre inspection today, would anyone care to take a guess at how much I'm likely to spend for an inspection and given that these inspections should be thorough would leak down and compression tests be done as a matter of course?

thanks.

 

[Gordon Attar]

By the way, Torquoise Blue I like, particularily suits the Targa.

Inspections are usually £100 or 2 hours labour, also depends on whether you want the big write up or just a verbal report. Compression/Leakdowns need to be specifically pre-booked and are usually an extra cost.

 

[farquare]

I thought I'd be looking at £2-300 for an inspection.
would probably get compression done at the same time as this will be a driver (I commute 120 miles a day)...

dont suppose anyone has noticed this car on the register, I've gotten their stories from the dealer but it would be nice to hear their views on the car via e-mail or pm.

 

[pse_SC]

secondly the colour is hard to sell

Some "˜trader' [:'(] from Hendon once told me this a while ago - bullsh*t, in my opinion (At the time, I was looking at the 993 Turbo he had for sale with it's bumper hanging off, about which he said "˜Oh that's OK' [8|])

 

[farquare]

ORIGINAL: pse_SC

secondly the colour is hard to sell

Some "˜trader' [:'(] from Hendon once told me this a while ago - bullsh*t, in my opinion (At the time, I was looking at the 993 Turbo he had for sale with it's bumper hanging off, about which he said "˜Oh that's OK' [8|])

I actually thought the car might have been yours at some point after looking through the forum on Sun.

I think its a great colour, but then I'm almost biased!

 

[pse_SC]

Bought mine 6 years ago from 911 virgin and, apart from the brilliant condition, complete originality and impeccable history of the car, the colour was what attracted me then, too[]. Much as silvers, blues, etc are all great, you see them all the time and I prefer to have a more unusual colour. I think Arena Red is lovely too - beauty's in the eye of the beholder[]

 

[Porker993]

Several experienced, knowledgable people have advised you to avoid this car. There are many straight 993s out there for similar money. A Cat C car will probably have had a major suspension and or body shell damage which is impossible to cure 100%. It is unlikely to ever drive straight. The insurance and resale problems have already been covered.

Good luck, Sir.

 

[MarinerChris]

I'm looking myself for my first 993.

Having read this thread, I now have another item in my "what to avoid" list.

Thanks chaps!

 

[farquare]

I don't want to seem ungrateful for good advice but in fairness no-one has explicitly stated I should avoiud this car - only at this price.... One of the reasons I joined up was to get better info about this model but so far all everything I have been told has just re-enforced what I already know:

1) the car has a ropey history - show me a 17 year old car that hasn't;
2) the car is not going to win any concourse awards - I'm well aware of this and I'm not looking for a show stopper;
3) I know what the weak points are and I've asked for advice on anything else to look for; and,
4) I'm not looking for a 35k one owner car, in fact i'd prefer a slightly ropey daily - I have more rewarding ways of disposing of that marginal capital

Thanks for the feedback so far - I'll let you all know how I get on Sat morning.

Cheers.

 

[pse_SC]

1) the car has a ropey history - show me a 17 year old car that hasn't;

My 17 year old hasn't got a ropey history[].
Sounds like you know what you want - perfectly reasonable to get one that serves what you want - best of luck.

 

[farquare]

thanks, looking forward to the test drive now!

 

[RHT45]

Good luck on Saturday. SMS has certainly had this car since last autumn. I'm going to have a 993 for at least a season when I can, so I was interested in this one, thinking it could be used quite a lot without hammering the resale value. I suggest you try to deal with the boss (Hugh McKinnon) who has been in the business a long time and knows 911's. I know him slightly, he lives near me and has (or had) an early 911 for classic rallies. He's OK - I've no connection with his business BTW!