Geometry seetings for S2
- Thread starter charles.y
- Start date
Guys,
Thanks for the advice. Forgot to mention that my S2 is pretty much standard and have the four struts renewed last year with Porsche parts. The only diffs are:
1) the front and rear wheels are 205 and 255
2) a custom made adjustable strut brace with 1000 lbs pre-load (by Dynatech Motorsports in US)
Also, the steering wheel is less communicative than it used to be and a left pull tendency when driving on a straight. Hope the geometry will sort out that as well.
Thanks for the advice. Forgot to mention that my S2 is pretty much standard and have the four struts renewed last year with Porsche parts. The only diffs are:
1) the front and rear wheels are 205 and 255
2) a custom made adjustable strut brace with 1000 lbs pre-load (by Dynatech Motorsports in US)
Also, the steering wheel is less communicative than it used to be and a left pull tendency when driving on a straight. Hope the geometry will sort out that as well.
appletonn
New member
As a recommended compromise by the guy who set it up for me - he used to set up a race 944t but my car is primarily a road car, albeit with some track use planned.
I wanted to dial out some of the understeer in corners, but the -ve front camber is perhaps more than you might want as it will impact on front tyre wear[
]
The starting point was to get everything back to factory settings and evenly balanced (which they weren't before![8|]), before tweaking them so as to give me the balance I wanted, ie sharper turn in and less understeer.
I wanted to dial out some of the understeer in corners, but the -ve front camber is perhaps more than you might want as it will impact on front tyre wear[
]The starting point was to get everything back to factory settings and evenly balanced (which they weren't before![8|]), before tweaking them so as to give me the balance I wanted, ie sharper turn in and less understeer.
When I had the geo set on my S2, I was recommended to ask for the most aggressive version of the factory settings (from the workshop manual available on Rick Cannell's page - www.cannell.co.uk). The factory settings changed from year to year (I think that '89 was the most aggressive) and there was a tolerance in that.
The end result is very, very planted, and very satisfying to drive fast on-road. Mine has the stock ARB's and the Koni adjustable shocks (set full-hard.) The steering is slightly vague around the centre point, but weights up very nicely once slightly off-straight.
Bear in mind that mine is a daily driver, and if you want to go more extreme there is lots of potential for that as well. But do spend time talking to the guy doing the settings and make sure that you understand what is going on. One thing I learned is that it is a VERY complex subject area and apparently tiny changes to the settings can make a huge change to the way the car behaves.
Oli.
The end result is very, very planted, and very satisfying to drive fast on-road. Mine has the stock ARB's and the Koni adjustable shocks (set full-hard.) The steering is slightly vague around the centre point, but weights up very nicely once slightly off-straight.
Bear in mind that mine is a daily driver, and if you want to go more extreme there is lots of potential for that as well. But do spend time talking to the guy doing the settings and make sure that you understand what is going on. One thing I learned is that it is a VERY complex subject area and apparently tiny changes to the settings can make a huge change to the way the car behaves.
Oli.
Charles,
Give Tony at WiM my regards. He did my car, and while he doesn't do much German stuff (I think my 944 could be about the first one he worked on - most of his customers have Japanese cars) he does know a LOT about geometry and is very very happy to talk to you about what is going on and the effects of what he is doing.
He is good. I recommend him.
Oli.
Give Tony at WiM my regards. He did my car, and while he doesn't do much German stuff (I think my 944 could be about the first one he worked on - most of his customers have Japanese cars) he does know a LOT about geometry and is very very happy to talk to you about what is going on and the effects of what he is doing.
He is good. I recommend him.
Oli.
Tony,
I have the print-outs with the settings on them, from Tony. If you PM me with your eMail address I can scan 'em and send 'em to you.
Pre- and post- ... a comparison is difficult as I changed the suspension (new shocks) and re-set the geo by eye, by the side of the road. I then drove it straight to WiM to get it properly set-up. So to compare it with the settings pre-suspension change would be unfair as the new shocks will have made a very big difference, and to compare it with the new shocks but pre-geo would also be unfair as I know that the settings were a long, long way out. (There is a limit to how accurate you can get it with a spirit level and a piece of string on a cambered bit of road!)
PM me and I'll scan those sheets for you.
Oli.
I have the print-outs with the settings on them, from Tony. If you PM me with your eMail address I can scan 'em and send 'em to you.
Pre- and post- ... a comparison is difficult as I changed the suspension (new shocks) and re-set the geo by eye, by the side of the road. I then drove it straight to WiM to get it properly set-up. So to compare it with the settings pre-suspension change would be unfair as the new shocks will have made a very big difference, and to compare it with the new shocks but pre-geo would also be unfair as I know that the settings were a long, long way out. (There is a limit to how accurate you can get it with a spirit level and a piece of string on a cambered bit of road!)
PM me and I'll scan those sheets for you.
Oli.
After the geometry setup (the front cambers & toes were way out), the car feels much better immediately in handling, braking and cornering (and a bit controlled oversteer too). Here are the settings for your information...
LEFT RIGHT CROSS
<Front>
Castor: Before 2 degree 55' 2 degree 54' 0 degree 01'
After no change no change no change
Cross no change no change no change
Camber: Before -0 degree 14' -0 degree 02' -0 degree 12'
After -0 degree 54' -0 degree 58' 0 degree 04'
Toe: Before -0 degree 01' 0 degree 08'
After 0 degree 25' 0 degree 26'
LEFT RIGHT CROSS
<Rear>
Camber: Before -1 degree 48' -1 degree 04' -0 degree 44'
After no change -1 degree 06' -0 degree 42'
Toe: Before 0 degree 10' 0 degree 10'
After 0 degree 11' 0 degree 11'
LEFT RIGHT CROSS
<Front>
Castor: Before 2 degree 55' 2 degree 54' 0 degree 01'
After no change no change no change
Cross no change no change no change
Camber: Before -0 degree 14' -0 degree 02' -0 degree 12'
After -0 degree 54' -0 degree 58' 0 degree 04'
Toe: Before -0 degree 01' 0 degree 08'
After 0 degree 25' 0 degree 26'
LEFT RIGHT CROSS
<Rear>
Camber: Before -1 degree 48' -1 degree 04' -0 degree 44'
After no change -1 degree 06' -0 degree 42'
Toe: Before 0 degree 10' 0 degree 10'
After 0 degree 11' 0 degree 11'
Charles,
Glad to hear you got a result. Did it all go well?
Interesting settings. He didn't touch the rear at all (2 minutes change on one camber setting and 1 minute on both toe are within the range of measurment tolerance, I am guessing.) He did the front Camber and Toe.
I presume you'll be going back there for the free re-check in about a month's time?
Oli.
Glad to hear you got a result. Did it all go well?
Interesting settings. He didn't touch the rear at all (2 minutes change on one camber setting and 1 minute on both toe are within the range of measurment tolerance, I am guessing.) He did the front Camber and Toe.
I presume you'll be going back there for the free re-check in about a month's time?
Oli.
Neil Haughey
New member
Several years ago before I got on these forums I played around with the geometry several times to get it how I like. IMHO you have pretty much got it spot on. I like a decent amount of rear toe-in. ISTR mine was 10 minutes per side last time I had it measured. 1 degree -ve camber is plenty on stock suspension for the front, 3 degrees castor is well accepted as the target for 944's. As for front toe well you can make small adjustments around the 0 depending on what you like. I prefer to have pretty much 0 toe on the front. Only thing I don't like in your settings is you have way to much camber on the rear left. 1 degree -ve is plenty on the back. I have seen cars with huge rear camber looking like 3 degrees, it is just wrong.
Neil,
Thanks for the info. The guy (Tony) at WiM is very helpful and very knowledgeable too. He did a all round health check on the chassis before performing the readings and had a very nice chat with me wrt the areas needs adjusting plus also my driving styles etc which may affect the final settings. His recommended settings will give an extra bit of oversteer that are controlled and progressive and not excessive. I will give him a call re the rear left camber to hear his opinion.
He also recommends to replace the current anti-roll bars with some bigger ones which will transform the S2 cornering a lot even better than any coilover suspension upgrade. He has done a lot of tunning for much more modern road and track cars and he is very impressed with the 944's chassis which still looks very strong after all theses years. A compliment to the 944 enginerring team.[]
Thanks for the info. The guy (Tony) at WiM is very helpful and very knowledgeable too. He did a all round health check on the chassis before performing the readings and had a very nice chat with me wrt the areas needs adjusting plus also my driving styles etc which may affect the final settings. His recommended settings will give an extra bit of oversteer that are controlled and progressive and not excessive. I will give him a call re the rear left camber to hear his opinion.
He also recommends to replace the current anti-roll bars with some bigger ones which will transform the S2 cornering a lot even better than any coilover suspension upgrade. He has done a lot of tunning for much more modern road and track cars and he is very impressed with the 944's chassis which still looks very strong after all theses years. A compliment to the 944 enginerring team.[
]
Richard,
Sure - here's their website:
http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/
They have moved premises since I was there; they were operating out of another business but I knew plans were underway to rent their own, which looks like it has now happened. The guy who runs it (Tony Bones) is good and knowledgable but he is no 944 expert - he had to refer to the Porsche workshop manual I took with me to adjust my car when I took it there. Having said that, he did a reasonable job of setting my car up and I was satisfied with it, and he is VERY reasonable compared with the competition.
I am interested by the comments that he made to Charles (as reported in Charles.y's post) as they aren't quite the same as the ones he made to me a year ago! If you do use his services, give him my regards (although he probably doesn't remember me.)
Oli.
Sure - here's their website:
http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/
They have moved premises since I was there; they were operating out of another business but I knew plans were underway to rent their own, which looks like it has now happened. The guy who runs it (Tony Bones) is good and knowledgable but he is no 944 expert - he had to refer to the Porsche workshop manual I took with me to adjust my car when I took it there. Having said that, he did a reasonable job of setting my car up and I was satisfied with it, and he is VERY reasonable compared with the competition.
I am interested by the comments that he made to Charles (as reported in Charles.y's post) as they aren't quite the same as the ones he made to me a year ago! If you do use his services, give him my regards (although he probably doesn't remember me.)
Oli.
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