Getting There! (race car imagery warning)
- Thread starter Neil Haughey
- Start date
MarkK
Active member
4 tyres half a season!!!My record is one set of pretty fresh toyos done in 1 afternoon testing at Anglesey and one quali next day,the fronts had canvas poking out all over the place,Alex had to take me into town (no tyre people on site)and we fudged it for the race with a new rear tyre front left and new front right,it did not handle great at all!!
The Cadwell Sports V Saloons races are weekend after Silverstone,September is going to be busy hope car stays in one peice....Mallory,Silverstone,Cadwell and then Interseries at Brands gp....i know this sounds cheesy but i would just like to finish- come out of it unscathed and car still working!Donnington night race after the day race sounds a bit special,don't want to get through the whole season then lose the car at the last minute...[&:]
The Cadwell Sports V Saloons races are weekend after Silverstone,September is going to be busy hope car stays in one peice....Mallory,Silverstone,Cadwell and then Interseries at Brands gp....i know this sounds cheesy but i would just like to finish- come out of it unscathed and car still working!Donnington night race after the day race sounds a bit special,don't want to get through the whole season then lose the car at the last minute...[&:]
Neil Haughey
New member
On an S2 I am reliably informed about 4 races per set, earlier estimates I had been told was 6 tyres for a whole season.
DivineE
New member
Maritime blue.. now that you mention it I think I'd asked that before. It is a really lovely colour though. Smooth and stylish in low light yet exotic and interesting in the sun.
I understand what your saying about racing but I think of the racing vs road car argument being a bit like a washing machine vs a dishwasher; I've never minded doing the washing because a spend a morning doing a couple of loads and then I don't have to worry about it for another week which gives me enough time to safitsfy myself that it was worth doing before it needs doing again. The washing up on the other hand I hate because by the time I've cleaned it all and put it away it seems like I almost immediately need to do it again and there's a pile of dirty pans on the side. I can't do it and relax knowing its sorted for a while so there's no motivation to do it.. Even though the effort reqired is probably no greater.
Having limited funds is like having only one space for a machine in your house. I can only choose one and I can't stand the idea that even if I spend all my money getting my car right for a race, chances are the next day (or an hour later) I'll be needing to do it all over again. With a nice road car I can spend a lump of money and know that I will be happy for a long enough period to satisfy myself that it was worth doing before I change the car or something breaks and I have to do it again.. Even if the cost is probably similar.
Therefore for me the only solution is to wait until I can afford it comfortably/ buy a dishwasher so the stress is taken out of it.
p.s. If I tried to race on my budget it would probably have to be a 205, and unless its a T16 that just wouldn't cut it for me as racing thrills.
I understand what your saying about racing but I think of the racing vs road car argument being a bit like a washing machine vs a dishwasher; I've never minded doing the washing because a spend a morning doing a couple of loads and then I don't have to worry about it for another week which gives me enough time to safitsfy myself that it was worth doing before it needs doing again. The washing up on the other hand I hate because by the time I've cleaned it all and put it away it seems like I almost immediately need to do it again and there's a pile of dirty pans on the side. I can't do it and relax knowing its sorted for a while so there's no motivation to do it.. Even though the effort reqired is probably no greater.
Having limited funds is like having only one space for a machine in your house. I can only choose one and I can't stand the idea that even if I spend all my money getting my car right for a race, chances are the next day (or an hour later) I'll be needing to do it all over again. With a nice road car I can spend a lump of money and know that I will be happy for a long enough period to satisfy myself that it was worth doing before I change the car or something breaks and I have to do it again.. Even if the cost is probably similar.
Therefore for me the only solution is to wait until I can afford it comfortably/ buy a dishwasher so the stress is taken out of it.
p.s. If I tried to race on my budget it would probably have to be a 205, and unless its a T16 that just wouldn't cut it for me as racing thrills.
Wow shes a beauty, Maritime is just the best Porsche colour on older porkers.
Neil- been finding your stripping weight out info a v useful tool cheers.
Seems you still have the glass tailgate? I chatted to Kevin ref plexi hatches & he said all their racers ran them & messes up weight distribuition otherwise, Is an interesting idea but to me you can sort weight distribution out a bit with coilovers, stick batterry in the rear etc (mines under bonnet 924S ) seems you are on your weightclass limit anyway, but in my mind loosing all that weight up high has to be good?
Neil- been finding your stripping weight out info a v useful tool cheers.
Seems you still have the glass tailgate? I chatted to Kevin ref plexi hatches & he said all their racers ran them & messes up weight distribuition otherwise, Is an interesting idea but to me you can sort weight distribution out a bit with coilovers, stick batterry in the rear etc (mines under bonnet 924S ) seems you are on your weightclass limit anyway, but in my mind loosing all that weight up high has to be good?
MarkK
Active member
Thats what i thought aswell,the glass hatch is SO heavy,surley the weight dist after fitting a plexi hatch can be fiddled with suspension etc as Lizard says?????????????[8|]
Ben- You should come and watch the Tin tops series with 205s etc looks like brilliant fun,got me thinking about hot hatch racing aswell,taking my 205 to Silverstone tommorow[
],hope i dont break it!
Ben- You should come and watch the Tin tops series with 205s etc looks like brilliant fun,got me thinking about hot hatch racing aswell,taking my 205 to Silverstone tommorow[
],hope i dont break it!
DivineE
New member
ORIGINAL: MarkK
Ben- You should come and watch the Tin tops series with 205s etc looks like brilliant fun,got me thinking about hot hatch racing aswell,taking my 205 to Silverstone tommorow[
Love them on the road but Silverstone was actually the track I was thinking of, it just absorbs power and driving the Lotus 112r round there on my hours tutor session was like torture! Just nothing, nothing to go on down the straights I was practically rocking in my seat willing it to go faster. You need POWER.
edh
New member
More power is always nice, and hangar straight is a bit boring without 400hp (It was dull in a 300hp 944), but I was surprised how well the Civic went at Silverstone with only 180hp. Straights aren't really where the action is anyway.. There are plenty of fast corners where light weight really counts, and you can gain loads of time under braking. I think the faster tin tops are as fast on most circuits as the future classics in Mark's series?
Neil Haughey
New member
I believe they are but some of those cars are somewhat special, I believe for example that some are ex-touring cars and they have fairly relaxed rules as is the tradition in CSCC.
At least 2 ppl I know have described Silverstone as like driving around a parking lot, anyways I put my entry in for both Mallory and Silverstone national, its probably a bit more fun when its 4 cars abreast.
On the issue of the plexi hatch ISTR its more an issue of loosing traction as the back end gets so light. Having said that though as I sit forward in the car and am less heavy than some other drivers my cars weight distribution is slightly forward. Much the same in fact as a very tall heavy driver but with a plexi hatch.
TBH if I was going down that route I would do the same as I mentioned before and try and get the same amount of the front end by using a carbon fibre bonnet and wings.
Battery is already in the boot on RH drive S2's etc. really needs to be as well to get good weight distribution.
At least 2 ppl I know have described Silverstone as like driving around a parking lot, anyways I put my entry in for both Mallory and Silverstone national, its probably a bit more fun when its 4 cars abreast.
On the issue of the plexi hatch ISTR its more an issue of loosing traction as the back end gets so light. Having said that though as I sit forward in the car and am less heavy than some other drivers my cars weight distribution is slightly forward. Much the same in fact as a very tall heavy driver but with a plexi hatch.
TBH if I was going down that route I would do the same as I mentioned before and try and get the same amount of the front end by using a carbon fibre bonnet and wings.
Battery is already in the boot on RH drive S2's etc. really needs to be as well to get good weight distribution.
Neil Haughey
New member
Nope, bonnet is pretty heavy. The bonnet, wings, front and rear bumpers are all fibreglass items sold as a kit by EMC. The bonnet is attached on my car via stock hinges at the back and a pair of aero catches at the front. Actually fitting the aero catches is something my brother Barry did a proper good job of. Its one of those things that is a real PITA apparently to get right but he figured a neat system for doing in them in a morning. I can't remember the exact figures but the FG kit saves the best part of 30 Kg in weight. Much of it is from the ends of the car so well worth doing. BTW my sunroof aperture has the skin and surround from the stock sunroof panel bonded in place. That saves a nice little bit of weight from way up high in the car.
Believe it or not but a surprising weight saving has come from not refitting 2 boxes worth of odds and ends of brackets, switches, door wiring etc. etc. My dashboard for example is pretty bare. Apart from the obvious interior savings the rest comes from the body shell being acid dipped which removes an enormous amount of weight.
Believe it or not but a surprising weight saving has come from not refitting 2 boxes worth of odds and ends of brackets, switches, door wiring etc. etc. My dashboard for example is pretty bare. Apart from the obvious interior savings the rest comes from the body shell being acid dipped which removes an enormous amount of weight.
The CSCC Tin Tops rules are basically the same as the Future Classics ones - no more or less relaxed - and on average I would say that the level of technology/ preparation in Tin Tops is about the same as Future Classics. There are some good cars in Tin Tops but they are not especially "trick". The front running guys are running Honda Civics & Integras, Clios & MG ZRs - none of them are ex Touring Cars, they would not be allowed (as non standard shape bodywork & sequential gearboxes etc are verboten) but there are a couple of ex National Saloon car Cup cars, basically "Super Production" or Group N+ cars, mine being one of them but I bought that cheaply!
The vast majority of cars are probably Stock Hatch or Hot Hatch type cars & I previously had a tremendous amount of fun in a £2K Fiat Uno and then a £600 Alfa Romeo 33!!!
If you can't afford a 944 to go racing in then there are cheaper ways of doing it, whether in Tin Tops or Future Classics. If you want to stick with a Porsche or RWD then a 924 would be a good compromise way forward in Future Classics, particularly as they are eligible for the "Super 70s" class & therefore get invites to the Pre 1981 Nurburgring 300Km race that CSCC goes to every year.
I understand the weight distribution implications of having a plexi hatch as opposed to the original glass one but the weight of the glass hatch is high up, why not run with a plexi hatch & put the difference in weight between the two versions of the hatch back in (lead strip?) as low down and as far back as possible?
Neil Haughey
New member
You could, I think ultimately this point has come about with reference to EMC, who have built a lot of cars to PCGB championship regs, both my car and Petes/Alex one as good examples being fairly similar. The PCGB regs require glass work rather than plexi, and ISTR you can only have a single ballast weight in one lump placed in the passenger seat area (911's I believe can have one in the boot up front as well?). TBH I like the PCGB regs you know car specs are going to be broadly similar which is reflected in some respects by how incredibly close Class 1 has been this year.
924 or 944 2.5/2.7 I bet would all be cheaper to run than my S2 which in turn is cheaper to run than a 968 etc.
I look forward to finally meeting you Andy. I have seen your postings on here and on PH for many years now but never actually met you in person.
924 or 944 2.5/2.7 I bet would all be cheaper to run than my S2 which in turn is cheaper to run than a 968 etc.
I look forward to finally meeting you Andy. I have seen your postings on here and on PH for many years now but never actually met you in person.
sawood12
New member
What is the weight difference between glass and plexi hatch? If you're taking 30kg's out of the front then you need to take the same out of the rear to maintain balance. If the weight difference between hatches is 30kg then bingo - best of both worlds, you've taken 60kg's weight out and lowered the CofG. I actually think that 944's would benefit from a bit more rear weight bias - well turbo's would anyway, to increase traction and braking efficiency.
CarreraRSR
New member
Lexan approx 12kg v's glass at 27kg
'Feels' more than double to me when we change over between events. More like triple, but that's just a guess.
Great job guys. Very jealous. Look forward to watching continued progress. Neil, if you have a moment at some stage, could you get a few pics of the Aerocatch setup your brother did. I have a set but we chickened out for the more trad hood pins. Just like to see how he did it.
Cheers.
Neil Haughey
New member
Time to resurrect this one lads with some pics from the test session at Mallory Park Wednesday morning.
Very first time driving the car in its race form, last minute "pep talk" from Kev prior to taking to the track, and my does he do the belts up tight.
Felt great in the car but pretty busy at times out there, had a very odd yo-yo with the red 24. Sometime I seemed to drop him then he came back which helped me to confirm where I was loosing time on the track. He followed for a couple of laps then I let him pass so I could concentrate on my own laps without watching other cars to much.
Some actions shots from the braking zone into the Esses, last one right before turn in.
As mentioned over in Paul F's racing thread I managed to get down into the 57's, 3 times out of 7 laps then spun off at Gerrards. Well you live and learn as they say, only later I realised just how much I was pushing it braking very late for Gerrards but as I got away with a bit of steering correction for 6 laps I thought why not keep pushing it []. After having time to analyse the track it was obvious I was loosing an enormous amount of time in Gerrards. I kept glancing at the speedo and 80 to 82 mph in the first 1/3rd and yet 115 mph on the exit tells its own story. Need to push harder earlier in corners and again at the hairpin. I was using the throttle like it was my old road car basically.
Bit of mud on the tyres but otherwise looks OK.
Feeling a tad embarrassed at this point, but its one of those rights of passage out of the way. Went out again in the last session but this time decided to just drive around and get a feel for the car.
Loaded her onto the trailer after a mornings graft she passed with flying colours, I love this car.
Just one last conversation between the Master and his Pupil [][]
Very first time driving the car in its race form, last minute "pep talk" from Kev prior to taking to the track, and my does he do the belts up tight.
Felt great in the car but pretty busy at times out there, had a very odd yo-yo with the red 24. Sometime I seemed to drop him then he came back which helped me to confirm where I was loosing time on the track. He followed for a couple of laps then I let him pass so I could concentrate on my own laps without watching other cars to much.
Some actions shots from the braking zone into the Esses, last one right before turn in.
As mentioned over in Paul F's racing thread I managed to get down into the 57's, 3 times out of 7 laps then spun off at Gerrards. Well you live and learn as they say, only later I realised just how much I was pushing it braking very late for Gerrards but as I got away with a bit of steering correction for 6 laps I thought why not keep pushing it [
]. After having time to analyse the track it was obvious I was loosing an enormous amount of time in Gerrards. I kept glancing at the speedo and 80 to 82 mph in the first 1/3rd and yet 115 mph on the exit tells its own story. Need to push harder earlier in corners and again at the hairpin. I was using the throttle like it was my old road car basically.
Bit of mud on the tyres but otherwise looks OK.
Feeling a tad embarrassed at this point, but its one of those rights of passage out of the way. Went out again in the last session but this time decided to just drive around and get a feel for the car.
Loaded her onto the trailer after a mornings graft she passed with flying colours, I love this car.
Just one last conversation between the Master and his Pupil [
][]
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