GT P/P LONG TERM 944 FLEET CAR
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I don't often get GTPP as seldom can I find it. Spured on by reports of a long term Turbot I did managed to find a copy in WH Smiths today.
What a complete and total![[sm=spanner1.gif]](/forum/styles/default/pcgb/spanner1.gif "Spanner1 [sm=spanner1.gif]")
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The Turbot was never going to last long when Mr Max Newton admitted that it was replacing a souped up Citroen Xsara.
We have classic comments like "Having some RWD experience on my old dear's Alfa Spider, I found getting used to the new drivetrain layout not too bad..."
".....Floor the throttle at 2000rpm and nothing much happens...." No, really! Gosh! Someone has obviously removed the lazy yank 7ltr V8 and put a 2.5 ltr Turbo under the hood. Well I'm assuming that's what he was expecting, as I haven't driven a car yet that doesn't want to give up and die if you floor the throttle at 2000rpm.
And then we get to his version of why a perfectly good 944 was written off within days of ownership:-
"Going round this little 45 degree kink on the slip road at about 3500rpm in third gear, I found the steering wheel to be communicating well and the rubber beneath biting hard with their limits far from being breached. Then, just as the four-pot is comming on boost and firing out of the corner...POP! The steering wheel jumps in my hands and the 944 sways violently. The nose ran slightly wide, I instinctively applied a bit more lock while keeping the power on, the nose gripped suddenly, the tail stepped out and began the process of overtaking the nose.
Ther was nothing I could do......it all happened so fast......and we left a 30-foot streak of Baltic blue up the barrier."
"......I instinctively applied a bit more lock while keeping the power on....." It's a shame Mr Newton's racing driver instincts didn't tell him to let off the gas. [
]
What a complete and total
.The Turbot was never going to last long when Mr Max Newton admitted that it was replacing a souped up Citroen Xsara.
We have classic comments like "Having some RWD experience on my old dear's Alfa Spider, I found getting used to the new drivetrain layout not too bad..."
".....Floor the throttle at 2000rpm and nothing much happens...." No, really! Gosh! Someone has obviously removed the lazy yank 7ltr V8 and put a 2.5 ltr Turbo under the hood. Well I'm assuming that's what he was expecting, as I haven't driven a car yet that doesn't want to give up and die if you floor the throttle at 2000rpm.
And then we get to his version of why a perfectly good 944 was written off within days of ownership:-
"Going round this little 45 degree kink on the slip road at about 3500rpm in third gear, I found the steering wheel to be communicating well and the rubber beneath biting hard with their limits far from being breached. Then, just as the four-pot is comming on boost and firing out of the corner...POP! The steering wheel jumps in my hands and the 944 sways violently. The nose ran slightly wide, I instinctively applied a bit more lock while keeping the power on, the nose gripped suddenly, the tail stepped out and began the process of overtaking the nose.
Ther was nothing I could do......it all happened so fast......and we left a 30-foot streak of Baltic blue up the barrier."
"......I instinctively applied a bit more lock while keeping the power on....." It's a shame Mr Newton's racing driver instincts didn't tell him to let off the gas. [
]
And when we look at the pictures following the accident what do we see - the road is dry!!!
Further more, if the back overtook the front, which end would you expect to be mashed against the barriers? The back? Oh no! Apparently, when you loose the back, going round a 45 degree bend comming up to a two lane on ramp, it is the front that gets mashed!!????
Also note, this was an '88 car with M030. LSD?
Looking on the bright side, I don't think we will be seeing Mr Newton at any 944 gatherings.
Further more, if the back overtook the front, which end would you expect to be mashed against the barriers? The back? Oh no! Apparently, when you loose the back, going round a 45 degree bend comming up to a two lane on ramp, it is the front that gets mashed!!????
Also note, this was an '88 car with M030. LSD?
Looking on the bright side, I don't think we will be seeing Mr Newton at any 944 gatherings.
eastendr
New member
ORIGINAL: John Sims
i]"Going round this little 45 degree kink on the slip road at about 3500rpm in third gear, I found the steering wheel to be communicating well and the rubber beneath biting hard with their limits far from being breached. Then, just as the four-pot is comming on boost and firing out of the corner...POP! The steering wheel jumps in my hands and the 944 sways violently. The nose ran slightly wide, I instinctively applied a bit more lock while keeping the power on, the nose gripped suddenly, the tail stepped out and began the process of overtaking the nose.
Ther was nothing I could do......it all happened so fast......and we left a 30-foot streak of Baltic blue up the barrier."[/i]
"......I instinctively applied a bit more lock while keeping the power on....." It's a shame Mr Newton's racing driver instincts didn't tell him to let off the gas. [
Sounds more like a 911 experience ......... Either way, this is the sort of p?ick that gives Porsche drivers a bad name. [
][] I hope he has problems getting insurance in future (preferably restricted to less than 1 Litre).Think of the residuals though - just made all the good Turbos that are left worth that little bit more.
On the M030 front, are the Koni inserts you cab buy only for the Koni struts or can they be fitted to Boge/Sachs struts? I might need a set of used Koni fronts for rebuild... From the description there will be one side that is bent though.
What's the bets Simon Butterworth is getting loads of calls about bits of this car about now?
I'm not so sure - I've been driving for 25 years but never driven a 911 "in anger". From what I understand (and perhaps in fairness to Mr Newton) if you lift off in a 911, when things get a bit hairy, it will punish you badly. A 944 is far more forgiving if you lift (or rather feather) when in trouble; it may retaliate by giving you a "tank slapper" if you lift from a point of oversteer, but this is by no means guaranteed.
He obviously got it wrong as far as this 944 was concerned.
He did note that there was some understeer. I would respectfully sugest that it is very difficult to push a Turbot from understeer to oversteer with power, and remain in control, without a lot of room. The arrival of the boost makes this a little "unpredictable" to say the least. Without plenty of run off to play with I tend to feather if Beaky understeers and let him settle befor laying in the power. Rear wheel drive cars with more progressive power delivery (even V8 Land Rovers [
]) can be moved into a neutral or oversteer position on the throttle, but you don't have that subtelty of control with the turbo.
uktrucks
Ex Club Member
Been away on hols for 2 weeks and just saw this !!! That was one of my cars and a beuty it was too. I only fitted a new air flow meter to it the week before I left. What a waste of a totally original 944 Turbo SE complete with the original forged wheels.
Mr Newton was only a youngster but his ability on the test drive was not put to the test. I have ot had a copy of GTPP this month but would appreciate a look at the phot if anyone has it
Allan
UKT Specialist Cars
Mr Newton was only a youngster but his ability on the test drive was not put to the test. I have ot had a copy of GTPP this month but would appreciate a look at the phot if anyone has it
Allan
UKT Specialist Cars
ORIGINAL: John Sims
I'm not so sure - I've been driving for 25 years but never driven a 911 "in anger". From what I understand (and perhaps in fairness to Mr Newton) if you lift off in a 911, when things get a bit hairy, it will punish you badly. A 944 is far more forgiving if you lift (or rather feather) when in trouble; it may retaliate by giving you a "tank slapper" if you lift from a point of oversteer, but this is by no means guaranteed.
He obviously got it wrong as far as this 944 was concerned.
He did note that there was some understeer. I would respectfully sugest that it is very difficult to push a Turbot from understeer to oversteer with power, and remain in control, without a lot of room. The arrival of the boost makes this a little "unpredictable" to say the least. Without plenty of run off to play with I tend to feather if Beaky understeers and let him settle befor laying in the power. Rear wheel drive cars with more progressive power delivery (even V8 Land Rovers [
If a 911 understeers then you lift off (lift-off does not mean snap the throttle shut, obviously). It's a car. If ANY car understeers then you lift off (unless you're somewhere like an airfield and you have the room too push through it into oversteer, or such a surfeit of power that oversteer is just an ankle-flex away at any time). In this instance the 944 was no different to his modified Xsara or whatever someone said he had before.
He does claim everything was fine and then suddenly the car understeered then bit - could've been that that front tyre went before the crash rather than as a result of it. Doesn't explain why the damage is closer to front-on than anything else though.
Edited to add that I speak on 911's from experience, at least of the 80's cars when they were still real 911's. Not half as scary as people like to make out but they will bite if you're too ham-fisted (luckily that only happened once and it was on track at the time so no harm done).
chrisr
New member
Coudnt help but feel sorry for the guy in honesty when my copy landed on the mat, flicked over the page starting with nice 944 turbo to oh well that's 1 less on the road, being a relatively inexperienced driver and losing my S2 ( ok it was pretty wet ) and ' getting away with it ' I kinda feel sorry for the guy but then he goes on about his Xsara and then prat springs to mind[8D] .
Nice comments re Allan and his barn - what was it £9400 - wonder what the Insurance company paid out ( if CAP is used about £5k would be my guess )
Nice comments re Allan and his barn - what was it £9400 - wonder what the Insurance company paid out ( if CAP is used about £5k would be my guess )
paulf968
New member
Paul -- have you checked to see that yours is still on the drive!!
What a complete twit the driver is -- my observation is that there is an implied criticism about the way the car handles.
It would be a great pity if that put a potential owner off -- if you are that potential owner, then be re-assured there is no inherent handling problem, quite the opposite.
The cars are very well balanced -- that driver was completely out of balance, indeed off his rocker!
paul f
What a complete twit the driver is -- my observation is that there is an implied criticism about the way the car handles.
It would be a great pity if that put a potential owner off -- if you are that potential owner, then be re-assured there is no inherent handling problem, quite the opposite.
The cars are very well balanced -- that driver was completely out of balance, indeed off his rocker!
paul f
eastendr
New member
ORIGINAL: Yoda
Rick
"Sounds more like a 911 experience ........."
I am sure it is more to do with driving experience/ability than what car you drive. You'll be sticking with the 944 then [
Yoda, wrong end of the stick (my fault) [
][]I was referring to the driving technique to recover an early 911/930 from swapping ends when you've overcooked it.
If you ever want to donate a 930, I'll certainly take it off your hands [
][][]
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