GT3 or a Gen2 997CS??

[okellyt]

Grant Different intent - it was to give the guy asking the question another option to allow him to continue enjoying his current car but add a little more bite without forking out huge bucks. If some one wants a GT3 or Turbo they'll have them. But sometimes what we want is something to spruce up our current car. The trade in hit will be huge so the head thing says tweak your current car and buy an upgrade very full new model rather than every face lift/Gen2 Talking privately to some of the engineers Porsche has had a few problems with recent models Carmen and Carerra S being two of them - both crying out for more power both with engines more than capable of producing this reliably, however this would impinge upon superior models and for marketing reasons not made "as good as they could be". the engineers really liked the 3.8l engine and felt it was generally very robust and easily capable of running a lot more power, 430-ish horsepower is fairly easy to get and off the record the view is that it won't stress the engine much. I've done a lot of digging on this one. So for me its about making the C2S road car as it should have been, having some fun with a real Q car, and enjoying a significant performance improvement while for the moment I can't afford/won't justify the trade in hit and new cost of newer model. BTW the couple of extras bits I am referring to are robust , reliable and were tacitly supported by Porsche AG when being developed - the issue you do have is the OPC's here looking for excuses not to have to do any more warranty work (a their cost_ than they have to. But for an older car your probably dealing with a specialist anyway rather than OPC.

 

[Grant]

OKT, I know you carefully research any mods, so clearly know a lot about Pork, I can also understand the q car approach, lets be honest the Gt3 is a bit OTT. The trouble is once you go heavily down the modified route, others don't know that you know what you are doing they just see it has been modified & this brings up images of chipped Evos that may go bang, or chassis mods that only work on track! Bottom line is you spend lots of money on mods & when you come to sell others actually pay you less than the standard unmodified price because they are worried about reliability or durability, so you loose the cost of the mods + more (accepting the official powerkit is an exception). Having said that its only money & if you don't mind loosing the dosh, well hey have fun I'm sure you will do a great job sensibly modifying your steed. The only point I'm making is yes you will pay more to upgrade to a GT3 than bolt on mods to your 997S, but you will also get back more come re-sale, so its all relative & I just like the thought of benefitting from all those millions Porsche spent developing the GT, even the price steps are logical (07 prices)... £67,860 CS £74101 CS Powerkit £79540 GT3. By the way OKT I thought you were selling your beast?

 

[Dylan1]

you spend lots of money on mods & when you come to sell others actually pay you less than the standard unmodified price

i think that was tom's point-he doesnt intend selling it at all!!-and the loss eventually when he does sell is way less than what you`d lose on a normal p/ex hit for a new car.now i understand where you are coming from tom as i am thinking of maximising the cayman s with a few upgrades now its out of warranty-any contacts you have researched would be appreciated atb dylan

 

[eljeffo64]

I have a 997 C2S - I've spent this weekend driving on the Cataluna gp circuit on a club porsche (France) trackday. GT3, GT3, GT3 - no doubt (I got to try one, a track session and on the road - they are superb). All that said; I got to drive my mates 964 RS and I'm smitten......

 

[Grant]

ORIGINAL: dyllan

you spend lots of money on mods & when you come to sell others actually pay you less than the standard unmodified price

i think that was tom's point-he doesnt intend selling it at all!!-and the loss eventually when he does sell is way less than what you`d lose on a normal p/ex hit for a new car.now i understand where you are coming from tom as i am thinking of maximising the cayman s with a few upgrades now its out of warranty-any contacts you have researched would be appreciated atb dylan

I fully understand where you guys are coming from & agree the odd modification is simply fun, sports exhausts, inductions systems, etc etc, we all love buying a present for our toy. But once you get into the hardcore engine & chassis modifications that OKT is talking about (430bhp for a Carrera S!) these cost big bucks & I simply can't agree that the heavily modified route makes more financial sense than upgrading your car! An example Dyllan: OPC CaymanS prices are around £37k for an 06 where as an 06 997 Carrera S is around £49k, so it will cost you around £15k to "upgrade" to a more powerful Porsche model. Unlike a heavily modified Cayman S with upgraded engine & chassis, it will retain a good part of that extra £15k come re-sale! Of course if you aren't worried about re-sale & want to keep the Caymans great driving dynamics I can see where you are coming from, we are all different & that's what makes the world go around, but I would still take the Carrera S every time rather than wasting £kkkkk of my hard earn't on major aftermarket mods!

 

[sawood12]

Well I can understand the mod the 997 route. There are a hell of alot of very good aftermarket products out there, some of which are better than the PASM option on the GT3. Sometimes people want their cake and to be able to eat it - and have seconds. They want the leather and sat nav, the air conditioned seat all with the GT3 levels of performance. Also with the gen 2 997, the new engine with the PDK i'm guessing would be nicer to drive around town. As the on-paper specs suggest the GT3 makes all it's power at the top of the rev range, so the 997's performance is more accessable more of the time on normal roads. Sometimes you just want that power on tap without having to stir the gearbox to find it. If I had the dosh and it was for a 2nd car would go GT3 any day of the week. I just love it. But I think if it were going to be my only car that was for the commute to work, trackdays, the odd european road trip i'd fancy the 997 with PDK. Don't underestimate how much that PDK can enhance the driving thrills. I've driven a VW DSG equipped car and it was a hoot. Much more fun than manual gearbox and clutch - it allowed you to concentrate on driving and not the mechanics of driving. I'm a convert. Here's a possible 3rd option - go gen 2 Carrera (non S) PDK with LSD (and maybe PCCB) and wait for aftermarket mods to come on line. It's only a matter of time and with direct injection there is a hell of alot more tuning potential. You also get into the slightly cheaper tax bracket, which may not be of concern to you in terms of running costs, but in my mind it is like sticking a finger up at the politicians.

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: dyllan

you spend lots of money on mods & when you come to sell others actually pay you less than the standard unmodified price

i think that was tom's point-he doesnt intend selling it at all!!-and the loss eventually when he does sell is way less than what you`d lose on a normal p/ex hit for a new car.now i understand where you are coming from tom as i am thinking of maximising the cayman s with a few upgrades now its out of warranty-any contacts you have researched would be appreciated atb dylan

Try Porscheshop or Paragon. The most fun upgrade is the Revo remap, approx £700 for a reversable remap and 25 extra horses plus about 17lbft torque[] A friend of mine had it done and it makes a huge difference. The manifiold and part exhaust are all reversable for sale time (you keep the original bits) and get you another 25-ish HP and a lot more low down grunt. Grant, you were partly right - Clive has specced me a brand new 997 turbo over the swiss trip. However the effects of the credit crunch on my business and the financial controller (wife) have determined I will be keeping current car for at least another 2 3 years. Hence looking at mid life presents The jump to the Turbo plus plummeting trade in prices for 997 means I'd have to find £50k. At the moment I might get sanciton for £2.5k[] Also I want to see if the PDK option will make it to the turbo...........Then ahving seen Alex's re-mapped turbo with full Miltech sports exhaust........... Ah temptation.

 

[Faz]

Mottle, for me it really depends on every day use and the obstacles that will have to be negotiated. For me the GT3 would not be as good as the Gen2 PDK in handling endless speed humps, steep gradients getting in and out of car parks, travelling a wet and icey M62, sitting in hours of traffic jams, etc, etc. Don't get me wrong, the 997 GT3 will be my next porker when the time's right, but I have an everyday car so wouldn't have to use it everyday and that way I'll appreciate it all the more when I do use it.

 

[Lewea]

OKT, I'm not really into modding cars and prefer to stick with what comes from the factory floor. Anyway, away on business at the moment, so I have two weeks to sit back and consider my decision. Cheers Mark

 

[Ronnie C]

ORIGINAL: okellyt However the effects of the credit crunch on my business and the financial controller (wife) ...

Nice to know I'm not the only one that has to deal with sanctions screening.

 

[Rotorhead]

ORIGINAL: Faz Mottle, for me it really depends on every day use and the obstacles that will have to be negotiated. For me the GT3 would not be as good as the Gen2 PDK in handling endless speed humps, steep gradients getting in and out of car parks, travelling a wet and icey M62, sitting in hours of traffic jams, etc, etc. Don't get me wrong, the 997 GT3 will be my next porker when the time's right, but I have an everyday car so wouldn't have to use it everyday and that way I'll appreciate it all the more when I do use it.

The nice thing about the 997GT3 is that you could buy one and keep it for special occasions; alternatively you really can drive it pretty much as you would use a regular 911. The ride comfort is v.good and, supposedly, slightly better with the pccbs. It will cope with all the issues listed above, although the small lip spoiler should be regarded as a consumable. The underside does get rubbed on some obstacles and, if you want to keep it looking pristine, it may need changing every 12 months (£100ish).

 

[Grant]

ORIGINAL: okellyt Grant, you were partly right - Clive has specced me a brand new 997 turbo over the swiss trip. However the effects of the credit crunch on my business and the financial controller (wife) have determined I will be keeping current car for at least another 2 3 years. Hence looking at mid life presents The jump to the Turbo plus plummeting trade in prices for 997 means I'd have to find £50k. At the moment I might get sanciton for £2.5k[] Also I want to see if the PDK option will make it to the turbo...........Then ahving seen Alex's re-mapped turbo with full Miltech sports exhaust........... Ah temptation.

OKT thats the very point I was making, if you want to upgrade your Porsche experience & add power you don't have to take the pain of a used to new depreciation leap.... why not consider a used 997TT they are just as credit crunched as your 997, starting around the mid-£60ks now.....................[][][]

 

[Lewea]

Just an update to all those kind people that responded to this thread... I've gone for a GenII C2S, should pick it up on Friday, 31st October... pictures and spec to follow. Ended up with a cracking deal on trade in of my Gen1 C2S and a car matching my requirements being available at short notice... to hell with the credit crunch! Happy chappy, Cheers Mark

 

[okellyt]

Mark, Nice one Put the picci's on when you have them Whats the spec

 

[jonathanw]

ORIGINAL: Lewea Just an update to all those kind people that responded to this thread... I've gone for a GenII C2S, should pick it up on Friday, 31st October... pictures and spec to follow. Ended up with a cracking deal on trade in of my Gen1 C2S and a car matching my requirements being available at short notice... to hell with the credit crunch! Happy chappy, Cheers Mark

Mark I am sure you will love it. I upgraded from a gen1 C2 tiptronic to the gen2 C2S with PDK and the difference is amazing.

 

[Lewea]

Spec is as follows: [ul]Porsche 997 C2S Coupe Gen 11 Meteor Grey Metallic Black Full Leather Manual Transmission Rear Wiper Electric Slide/Tilt Sunroof Park Assistance Sport Chrono Package Plus Heated Seats Floor Mats Extended Navigation PCM 3.0 Telephone Module (Bluetooth) BOSE Sound System Universal Audio Interface 19” Carrera Sport Alloy Wheels Sport Shifter Seat Belts Guards Red Aluminium Look Rear Centre Console[/ul] Pictures will be posted next weekend ;-)

 

[grover]

Having gone from a 997 2s sport to a 997 turbo via test driving a great 56 plate 'at the time' white gt3, hindsight says I should have bought the gt3 (much less depreciation than the turbo over last 9 months) and saved myself £20k plus and used that for something else. I have also driven new pdk at Silverstone and yes that is awesome too but not raw, grin on the face, proper noise, head turner in the same way Soemthing else would have paid for two years of Ecurie 25 membership or a down payment on a Range Rover which as a second car having spent a weekend with Landrover testing these beasts would be great with a GT3 in the garage. oh the choices!!!! Hindsight now.....a white GT3 anyday

 

[Lewea]

Nice choices Grover... The heart was saying White GT3, but the head and the deal made me go for the GenII car. The White GT3 hasn't dissappeared, maybe it will appear later in my life... Hopefully picking up the car Friday morning, if not Saturday am, pictures to follow.