GT3 RS Race Car anyone?

[PhilRS]

Very much so... Deep pockets required for a GT3 then... The bifurcation between air-cooled and water-cooled might also apply to race cars then. Plus, they made many, many, many GT3 Cups and the R, RS and RSR evolutions are not particularly rare either (compared to their aircooled racing homonyms).

ORIGINAL: Stewart H

They reckon that the running costs of a GT3 for trackdays work out at about £2,000 per day over the course of a season so the Cup must make that pale into insignificance.

 

[h_____]

I'd heard about £1000 a weekend to trackday a GT3, that was from a couple of guys in the local club, who ran them for about 10 days a year. Expensive, but not crazy. The thing that always got me was they would spend money on upgrading suspension etc. would have thought the cars were good enough out of the box? These were 996s.

 

[Hacki]

Running cost is one point, I agree, deep pockets needed for GT 3.

Has anybody thought about potential crash costs of a GT 3 or - even worse - the other watercooled and carbon fibre stuff equipped R, RS, RSR yet?

I don´t even want to think about that, neither a crash not the cost.

Bifurcation is exactly the right word, Phil (had to look it up..[])


Rgds

Hacki

 

[chfs911]

Sean Edwards said at Spa it was £40K per race for new body panels in Supercup.

 

[65 mat]

The problem is there is always someone who is prepared to spend MORE money than the next man...and for what? 1/2 second here and there?! £40k for lightweight panels...and they put fecking ballast in the car and restrict it's power![&:]

 

[PhilRS]

40K of panels! [:'(][:'(][:'(]

Actually, Hacki is making a good point: I read somewhere that one of the factors often forgotten about classic Porsches (racing e.g. at Le Mans, Spa 24 Hours, Sebring, Daytona and so forth) is that they did not suffer major breakdowns after minor crashes because they did not have water-cooling and so could keep running.

So, no, I do not want to think about the cost of replacing GT3 components after a crash... But this guy did [][][] (taken at PCF Days 2009)

 

[PhilRS]

ORIGINAL: Hacki


Bifurcation is exactly the right word, Phil (had to look it up..[])


Hacki

Yes, bifurcation. Charles (the physicist) could give us at least a couple of lectures on its meaning []

 

[Stewart H]

Run into the gravel in a 996 Cup/RSR etc. and off come your radiators - no cooling, lots of heat; lots of £s

 

[h_____]

ORIGINAL: PhilRS

40K of panels! [:'(][:'(][:'(]

Actually, Hacki is making a good point: I read somewhere that one of the factors often forgotten about classic Porsches (racing e.g. at Le Mans, Spa 24 Hours, Sebring, Daytona and so forth) is that they did not suffer major breakdowns after minor crashes because they did not have water-cooling and so could keep running.

So, no, I do not want to think about the cost of replacing GT3 components after a crash... But this guy did [][][] (taken at PCF Days 2009)

Where did this guy find a lamppost to hit at Spa!?! []

That looks damned expensive!

 

[PhilRS]

Does look expensive. The sign on the door says "for sale"... Poor guy [][]

 

[timarnold]

bifurcation

ORIGINAL: Hacki
Bifurcation is exactly the right word, Phil (had to look it up..[])

Isn't that what trousers are? 'Bifurcated' as opposed to a skirt which is not! [8|]

 

[PhilRS]

Yes, trousers have a saddle-node singularity at the crotch [][][]

ORIGINAL: timarnold

bifurcation

ORIGINAL: Hacki
Bifurcation is exactly the right word, Phil (had to look it up..[])

Isn't that what trousers are? 'Bifurcated' as opposed to a skirt which is not! [8|]

 

[timarnold]

ORIGINAL: Stewart H

They reckon that the running costs of a GT3 for trackdays work out at about £2,000 per day over the course of a season so the Cup must make that pale into insignificance.

I think thats a bitt OTT for a track day running cost. Either way I don't it think it woukd be a lot more to run a Cup car than it is to run a road car; as both Rick and I have pointed out, Cup cars are nothing more than glorified road cars.

I've run the question past Den whop has owned the GT3RS racer that I've been talking about, for nearly a year. He has done four track days with it since he's had it, doing around 2 hours of actual track time per day. He has had one major expense which shouldn't have happened but did, and was down to the driver's inexperience. It lost 1st gear as a result of an accidental, spin-inducing down-change from 4th into 1st instead of 5th when under acceleration, the repair costing £5,000. Most experienced track drivers shouldn't make that mistake! Other than that the costs have been:

Service: The car has been serviced - plugs, filters, oil etc... at a cost of £400.

Disks/Pads: When the car was delivered to Oulton Park and handed over after Den had boughtb it, the disks on it were in perfect condition and a new set of pads had been fitted. Four track days on the disks are still in perfect condition and the pads are barely touched.

Tyres: The was deliverd with a set of used slicks on it that had done a race meeting. Four track days on the tyres are just down to the wear indicators. A brand new set of Dunlop slicks is about £1,400 + vat. You may be able to buy used slicks good enopugh for a track day from a race team for a few hundred quid.

Fuel: Den does about 2 hours of actual track time each day and uses half a tank - £40 worth of super unleaded!

General: Thev car hasn't been stressed so the engine doesn't need any attention. It is simply checked to make sure it is sound - which it is. There will njo doubt be hidden costs that materialise later, but they shouldn't be massively expensive. For the time being that's all the car has cost to run.

To put the performance into perspective: the day the car was delivered to Oulton Pete drove it first (knowing the car) to make sure the set up was good and nothing was falling off. I was on the pit wall with some of Den's friends (Den passengering Pete) who asked me how the GT3RS racer compared performance-wise to a road GT3RS. As it happened there was an orange GT3RS circulating that morning, being driven well and quickly. I spotted the two cars going into :Lodge and told the people to watch as the were about to see a demonstration... as the orange GT3RS popped up out of Deer Leap Pete was just behind it in the white GT3RS racer... by the time the orange car came out of Deer Leap the following lap Peter was through Old Hall and long gone down towards Cascades.

 

[timarnold]

ORIGINAL: PhilRS
Yes, trousers have a saddle-node singularity at the crotch [][][]

Well I wouldn't know about that Phil [:-] Apart from wearing them I've never really taken more than a passing interest in trousers, whereas skirts have always been something of particular interest to me... well... their contents have! []

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: timarnold

whereas skirts have always been something of particular interest to me... well... their contents have! []

...have been?

 

[timarnold]

ORIGINAL: Hacki
...have been?

"have always been" which hasn't changed! i.e. still are - like the moon, it's always been there, and still is! []

 

[ChrisW]

Tim, thanks, a interesting perspective on GT3RS Racer ownership ...

But the one thing that doesn't seem to mark these descriptions is the concept of Classic.

Fast yes, but were I to be very fast, where would it get me ?

Better to scare a few EVO's and worry them with why they can't keep up with a 1991 porker driven by a civvi []

Anyway, I'm after you [][][] --- gently []

 

[timarnold]

ORIGINAL: ChrisW

Tim, thanks, a interesting perspective on GT3RS Racer ownership ...

But the one thing that doesn't seem to mark these descriptions is the concept of Classic.

Fast yes, but were I to be very fast, where would it get me ?

Better to scare a few EVO's and worry them with why they can't keep up with a 1991 porker driven by a civvi []

Anyway, I'm after you [][][] --- gently []

No problem Chris.
``
Where would a very fast car get you? Er, further up the same road much sooner? []

The best wasy to upset [tuned] Evo drivers is do what I did one day at Oulton.... blow them off with a standard BMW 320i! []

You'll never catch me 'gently' Chris! [][]

 

[jimmyslr]

I have something to add here chaps... I Have a 1999 996 GT3 Cup car. It was driven in the Supercup F1 support races by Tim Harvey in that year. It is the first of breed 996 GT3 cars with the slightly lower horses. This is a well used race car and has had a quite hard life so I would not call it pristine. It has been campaigned in the Porsche Open over about 5 years, recently by me and previosuly by 2 others.

As has been said, this is very very much like the road car in terms of it's basic underpinnings, but most of all the engine which is the bit people worry about. If the GT3 mark 1 engine gives you no worries then neither should this one. The other bits and pieces are a bit more robust such as gear linkage, it now runs PF floating brakes, the drive shafts are the motorsport ones etc. It looks and handles like a race car, but not same kettle of fish as a RSR for instance.

I sometimes take it to track days, such as those done by RMA with overtaking both sides, to give it a run out or shake down. The 997s and 996 GT3rs have me on power, but it's a different story under braking and in the corners where they don't know which way I went.

I would say that there is no material difference in GT3 Cup running costs vs road going GT3 for track day usage by the same driver. In fact, with GT3 cups now being quite cheap (say 30 grand, less than a road version!) there is a school which says they could be cheaper all in. Also, once the are set up you don't need a team to run them. Sure, most of them have non-standard suspension on them now, but it's barely more complicated than my 993 and does not need twiddling day to day any more than a road car being used on track. You do need a trailer, but the air guns and air jacks usage are optional (ie you might change to wets twice in a year of track days). Slicks by Michelin are a grand and in track day use should see you through 3 days maybe; Dunlops are longer lived but less sticky. Pads, disks, diffs, etc are exactly the same as the road car subject to you using the car a bit harder.

So, don't be too scared!

 

[PhilRS]

Interesting perspective. Did you ever have to rebuild the engine or gearbox? Isn't it where the main costs differences are between air- and water-cooled?

Also, how would you compare the driving experience between the 996 CUP and the air-cooled models? I have never driven water-cooled CUPs but am told that they are a bit harder to "read" as the limit approaches. I am also told that the steering lock available for correcting oversteer is quite limited due to font wheel geometry/suspension set-up and this has caught a few people who could not apply enough lock to correct an oversteering mistake.

But I am well aware that water-cooled CUPs are much faster than air-cooled counterparts, and not only in straight lines: Corner entry to apex seems to be another world. While I am not pottering around, I have often found myself struggling to set the car up properly on entry, observing well driven water-cooled CUPs just drive by, apparently with no understeer fuss, nicely balanced. And the speed differential in slow corners (e.g. Brussels at Spa), where air-cooled models struggle even to turn, is impressive.

ORIGINAL: jimmyslr

So, don't be too scared!