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GT4 - PCCB or Normal Steel

CarreraGTS

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Your opinion please - Is it a good idea to spec my GT4 with PCCB brakes or just keep the standard GT3 Steel brakes, when i spoke to my OPC he said that Porsche make the standard car sufficient to do its work in any Porsche and the GT3 Steel brakes are very good and more than enough stopping power for the Cayman GT4. However on Youtube all the race drivers are in "awe" of the stopping power of the PCCB brakes and at under £5k they are somewhat of a steal and look fantastic visually on a GT Car especially the 991 GT3

With the current delete on 918 Buckets it makes the PCCB seam more affordable still and keeps spec around £75k which seams logical or £70k with steel brakes ... ???

As ever your thoughts are appreciated ...


 
dpoynton said:
CarreraGTS said:
the PCCB brakes and at under £5k ... are somewhat of a steal

[:D][:D]
I wish i was that "Witty" - i was actually a Commentator for the BBC at one time and could have used that level of "Sharpness" ... :ROFLMAO: HaHa - Well spotted, your in the wrong Job...!

 
Andrew,

I'm sure that the GT3's steel brakes are more than adequate for the task of reining in the GT4's performance on both road and track. I suppose £5k's a reasonable option price, and as you say they look good and the discs will last much longer than the steel equivalents, although disc replacement costs are very high. Less brake dust flying around is an additional bonus (less wheel cleaning!) but care's needed when removing and replacing the wheels to avoid chipping the discs.

Any idea what's happening re the bucket seat options? I presume that it's a supplier problem, and history tells us that they're just as likely to return to the Configurator as not.

Jeff

 
Hello Jeff

I have my man at OPC looking into the Carbon Seat Option this week - He believes that they will come back but has no proof only gut feeling - this Month all OPC's will find out what GT4 allocation Porsche will supply for 2016 so my guess is that by the end of the month we will all be much clearer regarding GT4 Build numbers and potential Future values as well as Club Sport option availability ...

I have a conspiracy theory ... That Porsche will not build GT4's with Club Sport Spec from now on but will release a limited Run toward the end of the Gen1 life cycle ... Only my crazy thoughts though ... ;)

Andrew

 
Andrew,

981.1 production is due to end March/April 2016, so now is about the right the time for Porsche to get GT4 allocations in place. If the suppliers are able to meet demand before Spring 2016 then I can't see Porsche turning their nose up at the extra money to be made from Club Sport and bucket seat options.

Jeff

 
I've had a 991 GT3 with the same steel brakes and thought they were superb, some low speed squeal was the only negative point for me.

I am a big fan of PCCBs, but have gone for steels on the GT4 as from experience I doubt there can be anything in it performance wise, and still slightly nervous using PCCBs hard on track.

If you want to spend the money for the looks and less brake dust of the PCCBs etc then I wouldn't put you off, if I was only planning road use I'd have gone for them myself.

 
no performance advantage on the GT4 with PCCB's so see little point in them really.

every other boxster/Cayman model inc even the new Spyder you would see a performance change with PCCB

not so with the size of the Gt4 setup with the 6 pots.

they look mega and of course no dust so no right and wrong if you want them.

 
Mildly off topic, but if you are ever passing Silverstone, swing into the Porsche Experience Centre and go upstairs to the restaurant area. Tucked away to the left of the stairs they have a steel versus carbon ceramic disc weight difference demo - basically one of each type attached to a handle that you can pull up. I was amazed at how much lighter the carbon ceramics are - and when you multiply this by 4 wheels, they become a more interesting proposition.

Also, taking a PCGB track day at, say, Goodwood as an example, at the end of the session the marshals show the chequered flag and you can have a cool down lap before coming in - something that both brake types benefit from, and carbon ceramics arguably more so. However, you do get the occasional red flag incident when the marshals direct you straight into the pits - with no chance to do the cool down lap - would this concern anyone with PCCBs?

 
If red flag, unless you were rounding Woodcote you'd still have a cooling down part lap and you can always drive to the RR roundabout and back.

 
You usually are rounding Woodcote as most incidents happen coming out of the chicane!

Good tip about RR though - thanks.

 
MrDemon said:
no performance advantage on the GT4 with PCCB's so see little point in them really.

every other boxster/Cayman model inc even the new Spyder you would see a performance change with PCCB

not so with the size of the Gt4 setup with the 6 pots.

they look mega and of course no dust so no right and wrong if you want them.

It is very interesting to see how many 991 GT3RS are specced with the PCCB brakes ...

They should be bomb proof on the GT4 with 100Kilos less weight and 100BHP less power ... here's hoping.

But if I do break them, there are other options.

Those who passenger rode in both a steel and PCCB braked GT4's at Oulton Park last week commented positively on the PCCB brakes --- was this really just down to the driver ??

P.S. And a new Spider driver on the same day wished that he had specced PCCB's ......

 
If I was specifying a GT4 for road use - pccbs no question.

The unsprung weight saving is the main advantage, which should improve both ride and handling. No brake dust, no corrosion, disc longevity, superb and consistent stopping performance, hot or cold.

Nothing wrong with steels, but if you want the very best GT4, then IMO you'll want the very best brakes.

 
oliver said:
If I was specifying a GT4 for road use - pccbs no question.

The unsprung weight saving is the main advantage, which should improve both ride and handling. No brake dust, no corrosion, disc longevity, superb and consistent stopping performance, hot or cold.

Nothing wrong with steels, but if you want the very best GT4, then IMO you'll want the very best brakes.

That would be my view. And the fact that all new hyper cars have them gives more excitement to the lustful schoolboy (no matter how old we are).

 
it's 8% of the cars value on some thing that will not stop you any faster though.

No one will notice the weight saving or ride esp on a PASM car.

People have to understand how well braked the GT4 is with the steel set up from the GT3.

PCCB have to be 15% larger just to match the steel performance, and weights quoted ARE ALWAYS like for like sizes.

Again a 981 Spyder driver should have speced PCCB, they would see a performance advantage.

A £250k super car the CCM are a smaller % of the value of the whole car.

Also race cars DO NOT USE carbon ceramic disks !! a race car uses the much better performing carbon carbon disk and people seem to quote all that wrong and that disk wears out but performs far better and can take heat !

There is a lot to all these systems, but people need to go in eyes open, I am a 987.2 PCCB fanboy because the 4 pot 330mm set up is pants on 987.2 cars and not much better on the 981 cars.

I have also just done a track day and some one came in with 410MM PCCB RS and they were smoking like hell, this is what kills the disks people want prolonged use but track use on CCB tends to oxidize the disks due to being out longer and not looking after them, and at £5k a pop it's an expensive lesson, as you don't see fade PEOPLE DO STAY OUT LONGER !!! even Chris W says he likes to stay out for longer stints ! and he wore his Cayman R CCB out !

ALSO torque vectoring brakes rear wheels, so you cannot manage the heat really as the car is braking for YOU ;-(.

Then you have to look at heat, CCB run hotter for the pads due to mass etc hot means hotter every thing which runs close to it, like tyres and brake fluid, tyre temps are already hard to keep in spec, CUP 2's don't want to run too hot or high PSI, they go all greasy. again with fluid, you have more chance or over heating your brake fluid also, so again that = more changes.

And last due to heat killing CCB disks you have to manage your pad, as pad wear is hugh on a PCCB set up as the disk is designed to wear the pads out NOT the disk (a CCB is very very hard) (hence a disk should last a life time for normal road use).

this means changing pads ONLY 1/2 worn and you will be in for a shock come pad replacement costs with the massive pad size the GT4 has for PCCB pads. (I bet it's >£800 a set may be a lot lot more)

SO for any other Cayman or Boxster model ever made in the last 10 years YOU WOULD see a PCCB advantage, but the GT4 IS THE 1ST Cayman/Boxster to have a Big brake set up taken from the 100kg more GT3 RS !

It will match the PCCB GT4 set up you only have to do the maths on mass a disk sizes to see that.

CCB look cool as though, and make less dust (you do get dust as the pads wears, but it's far less than a steel set up)

As I have said no right and wrong on what any one wants, but you have to know what you are buying into, I have seem many a GT3 and even a few turbos who have done track days and there CCB are totally worn out (well not worn out but oxidized and falling apart)

I must see a PCCB car on every track day with smoking brakes in the pits ! and if you have caused that much heat your fluids had it.

 
I have to agree with what you're saying D and £5k is a significant premium to pay on what is really a £64.5k car, especially when the standard kit is so good and more than adequate for the job. And that's before you factor in the very high costs for replacement discs.

The law of diminishing returns springs to mind.

Jeff

 
Well as I've said before, 80% of my mileage will be on the road.

Yes I do replace pads when half worn.

Yes I am planning not to destroy these discs and therefore do as close to 2 laps as possible without using the brakes to cool them ...

And yes they are the same as those fitted to the GT3RS with 100 kilos and bhp more, so I hope I have a fighting chance :)

For me, the longevity of the discs and the performance advantages are worth the extra cost.

For somebody else, --- they will make their own choice :)

 
I specced the Normal Brakes in the end today ... Why??? 1) Initial Cost 2) I test Drove 991 GT3 and thought they were Great & thought if they can stop a car with 100Bhp more 3) The worry of £4k Replacement scares me to the point i wouldn't drive the car ... But Primarily the Initial £5k cost on top of Buckets, Club Sport, Chrono, Carbon Fibre Pack etc was getting the car up to £85k which is a lot of money for me personally! I am sure i will regret at some stage but what can you do .... Should just be happy to have a GT4 and see the glass as 98% Full ..... I hope .... ;)

 

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