GT4 Values - The beginning of the End for Enthusiasts ...?!

[CarreraGTS]

As Porsches baby, mid engine GT car hits the forecourt - many owners/slot holders are thinking potential values and profit - which IMO is a tragedy as its current value will keep cars Off the Road and in garages.

i was offered £17k yesterday "first offer" to "Flip my GT4" when built by the "Trade" what ever the Spec ...

Is is this the start of things to come, a bubble or the beginning of the end for Porsche Enthusiasts ...

As an Enthusiast - sincerely hope not ...

 

[Motorhead]

I have to agree also with what you've said in your other post Andrew. Porsche seriously underestimated demand for the GT4, most probably based upon that for the Cayman R which wasn't a great successs, and probably didn't take account of potential interest from 911 owners; as indicated by the increase in the numbers posting on this part of the forum.

Once the initial froth over the introduction of the 981.2 flat-4 turbo cars next year is past then Porsche will no doubt turn their attention to the 981.2 GT4. By MY2017 Preuninger & Co will then have had enough time to further the develop the car - most probably with a PDK option - and hopefully Porsche marketing and production will have got their act together to meet demand. In the meantime, owing to the low number of cars available, demand will probably exceed supply keeping prices high - much to the annoyance of true Caymanites like myself.

About a year ago on the Cayman GT4: Where are we up to now? post I predicted that the GT4 would become a "speculator special" and unfortunately this appears to be the case to some extent. Hope you're not going to be tempted to join the lemmings but choose to continue enjoying your car.

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

I completely agree with all of that Jeff.

The Cayman R was wrongly disregarded and even ignored by many Porsche owners at it's launch in 2011. When the motoring press wrote rave reviews about it's focused handling and precision steering feel, the "harrumphs" from those non-Cayman types were diminished still further when Autocar awarded the Cayman R the Best Driver's Car of the Year for 2012 against some formidable and respected competitors.

When CR's then started appearing at track days with the proper rubber fitted, it raised the eyebrows of more than a few 911 owners when the CR's agility came into it's own at the chicanes and fast S bends on circuits around the country.

I'm biding my time with my CR for now. However, I'll keep a weather eye on the forthcoming developments from Herr Preuninger with the 981.2 GT4 and the undoubted "improvements" the revision will offer. I think GT4 Mk2 will be the one to go for for us enthusiasts........so long as we can get a fair crack at the availability amongst the speculators and garage storers. It's good to read in this thread that so many keen drivers are intending using their new GT4 as it was designed to be used. All the cars posted on the photos look fabulous and I'm very envious of you lucky owners.

Brian

 

[ChrisW]

I agree. Silly times. They are driving machines ....

 

[flat6]

Maybe Porsche's intention was as they have done i.e. not to make so readily available such a Cayman that enters the 911's limelight. Remember it's taken 10 years for them to dare to make a 'faster Cayman'.

Maybe the focus is on the racing car version and as I said before, from a road car perspective did they really have to make the first 'faster Cayman' with such narrow appeal. Bear with me a second. The GT4 is a very special piece of kit and hence the demand against the short supply has sent values soaring. But being such an extreme piece of kit it doesn't worry them that the masses will be wanting to buy one instead of the more expensive 911 Carrera. I mean, a standard Cayman S with X.73 would happily cope with the GT4's 3.8 as a road car offering (as proven in the Spyder) but I think it's less likely they'd build such a ubiquitous model that overlaps the 911. Likewise the Spyder is not everyone's cup of tea with roof and they've dropped the 3.8 in there also. But I don’t reckon you'll see a Boxters S soon that will overlap with the more expensive 911 Carrera cab soon.

So I don’t think Porsche got their numbers wrong. But as a consequence of keeping the numbers so low it's had this knock on effect. They may consider it a bigger problem for them to make a 911 challenger more readily available. I may be completely wrong but just a thought. But until we see a standard Cayman or Boxster allowed to permanently nibble at the 911, I don't think the hierarchical status quo has changed.

 

[spyderwhite]

I can see some sense in that flat6!

 

[MrDemon]

I was told another 50 GT4 to arrive In the UK

this £30k over will only last a few more weeks imo.

seems loads more Spyders due also, my OPC is getting another 3 already cannot see any overs for Spyders now esp if you spec them to £75k

I think GT4 will drop to 10k over, so that's the rub sell today and get £30k or run it and get £10k or break even,

 

[Sandy59]

I don't see the numbers being as low as many people think, my OPC I believe got 5 initially, and are now getting another 4 at least, so I wouldn't call that low numbers.

I think we'll see exactly the same thing as the 991 GT3, predicted low number which keep demand and prices high, then a constant under the radar trickling out of more cars to meet demand. Suddenly one day the cat is out the bag and many try to sell at the same time, prices tumble.

All just IMO.

 

[MrDemon]

prices will drop like a stone very quick, You need to really want one now knowing it's not safe money at all.

 

[Masher]

'Drop like a stone'??? From the over-inflated 35% above list price heights of a new model launched to universal praise from ALL corners of the press. Maybe. Compared to buying almost any other new car. Certainly not.

I guess for those lucky enough to own a GT4 if you reflect for a second that you could have got £25k over list then you may be disappointed but I find it hard to believe these cars will ever drop below 25% UNDER list in their lifetime. That's a decent car to own.

The only game-changer to this as I see it is Porsche suddenly finding the desire to make this model 'standard' in the range and totally unlimited. Given the spec of the car for the money I cannot see that they can afford to do this.

Why do Porsche bring out GT models at reasonable market prices in the first place? To improve brand awareness and to hold up the values of used models is my guess. If the top end of your range is so desirable it rarely if ever drops below list, it helps peoples perception of the brand and people talk about how prices are holding / firming. This is what the brand wants. Therefore they put these special models in the market at low gross margin to themselves (a loss even) to increase the brand awareness and perceived value of used models.

Every model needs a flag-bearer and the GT4 is it for the Cayman. With each generation there will be a new GT4 I guess but the GT4 for a given generation model will be the one everyone wants.

I want these rarer models to hold their value because it holds value for the entire range. The moment a GT4 is cheap a Cayman R, Cayman GTS, Cayman S etc are worthless.

 

[MrDemon]

yes I ment to say drop like a stone from the £110k asking prices atm.

I think the GT4 will fetch overs still, not sure if the 981 Spyder will once all cars are built.

I have about a 1 week window to get £100k for my car imo, Do you sell to get £25k to £30k tax free money ?

I have been offered £100k for mine if I keep miles under 250 !!!

It's such a hard choice for the ave wage earner.

I want to keep the car but £30k is crazy money to turn down don't you think ?

 

[CarreraGTS]

Ok - Heres my thoughts as a Potential - December Build slot GT4 owner ...

Firstly you should never confuse your "Heart" with your "Head" - unfortuntely in this situation its "impossible" not too ... and at that lies the centre of the Problem!

I agree with Mr Demon - most people including me don't have the money to "frown" at a Handsome Profit ... Yet at our heart lies a "Car Enthusiast"!

This whole "Phenom" was created by the 991 GT3 so we can use that car as a decent benchmark, it pulled up the values of every other GT3 in its wake, especially with PDK!

They are now retailing at circa £135k so trading at circa £125k - this is a profit of circa £20k if you bought the car new and sold it today - approx 18 months after its release. But, lets remember this a 911, not a Cayman ...

Lets look at GT4 values today - Retail at £100k for low options £110k for PCCB and Buckets etc this is around £30k in Retail terms profit, however in that profit you will lose circa £10k to the selling dealer and lose circa £5k on your Part Exchange so in truth the actual Profit to the Average guy i.e. ME - Is between £10 & £15k - Probably the smaller of the 2 figures ...

So - I have been offered £17k to Flip which is Pure Profit, i get to keep my lovely 997 GTS as i am now "not" Part Exchanging - so in truth i believe we are looking at a "stepping Process" at present. When the GT4 drops to £5k to £10k "Actual Profit" the Price will tumble quickly as it won't cover the loss of your Part Exchange and therefore make most Porsche GTS, GT3, CR, Spyder owners hang onto what they've got ... Then i guess supply will have caught up with demand and the GT4 will become a car that can be bought for reasonable money without being on any OPC LOI lists ...

I am going to base my whole decision on the Porsche Performance Day and how much value i put on my "Heart" ruling my "Head" .... If i love the car i will sell a Brilliant 997 GTS if i don't i will make a £15k Profit ... But then lets not forget, if you Flip you lose Favour with OPC and can't put your name down for another GT car ... and i am at the top of the list for a GT4 RS ... Mmmmm

 

[Masher]

yes I ment to say drop like a stone from the £110k asking prices atm.

I think the GT4 will fetch overs still, not sure if the 981 Spyder will once all cars are built.

I have about a 1 week window to get £100k for my car imo, Do you sell to get £25k to £30k tax free money ?

I have been offered £100k for mine if I keep miles under 250 !!!

It's such a hard choice for the ave wage earner.

I want to keep the car but £30k is crazy money to turn down don't you think ?

Then maybe the question becomes what is it worth to have YOUR exact specification? Using the logic you've expressed you could sell now for £100k and then buy a GT4 in the open market once it's stabilized for maybe £80K having made maybe £20k but ended up with a car that's not just your spec, has some miles on it and possibly ruled yourself out of a future GT car from Porsche. With significantly fewer GT4's having bucket seats due to the shortage, finding an 'acceptable' spec GT4 in the market in a few months time at £80k might just prove a challenge.

Go thrash the pants off it, you know you want to

 

[Buddy]

Well D you can show a tasty profit and then later buy a Porsche Approved GT4 with warranty and checked out for over revs etc, if you can get one, the must have a GT4 types will play with them for a few months and then move on to another toy then the serious fans will buy them and from then they will become scarce on the market but you'l still pay over the odds so what will be the real profit? You could still end up paying £10K or so over base and have to find the GT4 you want options etc....

Meantime I can tell you that 911 owners are moving into Caymans as a better driver's car, board members of the club currently drive Caymans, a yellow 981 2.7 belongs to the Chairman, with other directors driving a 981S PDK and for the modified register a Cayman R PDK. Many of those changing over no longer need the rear seats or alternatively are moving from the performance 911's to Cayman S and Cayman R, GTS etc. It will be interesting to see how the Cayman is viewed as things progress over the next few years especially by outsiders who think there is only one Porsche any 911.

 

[Motorhead]

Greed - it's a terrible thing.

To all those who've been fortunate enough to secure a cracking car, just think yourself lucky and enjoy driving the wheels off it.

Jeff

 

[flat6]

I was told another 50 GT4 to arrive In the UK

this £30k over will only last a few more weeks imo.

seems loads more Spyders due also, my OPC is getting another 3 already cannot see any overs for Spyders now esp if you spec them to £75k

I think GT4 will drop to 10k over, so that's the rub sell today and get £30k or run it and get £10k or break even,

As MrD said on the Spyder thread, some of the Spyders being offered now may be from people who pulled out when no PDK was offered. Either way, its still very low numbers and not everyone who wants one is going to get one. Whereas everyone who wants a Carrera will get one eventually.

 

[flat6]

Meantime I can tell you that 911 owners are moving into Caymans as a better driver's car, board members of the club currently drive Caymans, a yellow 981 2.7 belongs to the Chairman, with other directors driving a 981S PDK and for the modified register a Cayman R PDK. Many of those changing over no longer need the rear seats or alternatively are moving from the performance 911's to Cayman S and Cayman R, GTS etc. It will be interesting to see how the Cayman is viewed as things progress over the next few years especially by outsiders who think there is only one Porsche any 911.

I think the reputation of the Cayman / Boxster has been in a very good place for quite some time. It's Porsche that perpetuates the hierarchy.

I really and truly enjoyed my Cayman and Spyder but I wanted to try something considerably more powerful but Porsche limits that choice to 911 (or even Panamera & Cayenne over the Boxster / Cayman for outright performance?!). I'm having an absolute hoot, but it's because it ticks my boxes, but the choice was limited by Porsche to 911 only. Not everyone wants ~ 500bhp and ~700Nm to play with and as you rightly say, Porsche sports car enthusiasts are switching between the models as they see fit. But there's no technical reason why we can't have our cake and eat it. It's just that Porsche doesn't want to make a 500bhp Cayman with a list price of £130k.

 

[993RS]

As MrD said on the Spyder thread, some of the Spyders being offered now may be from people who pulled out when no PDK was offered. Either way, its still very low numbers and not everyone who wants one is going to get one. Whereas everyone who wants a Carrera will get one eventually.

The current (old) Spyder in PDK suddenly becomes more attractive at circa £40k

 

[MrDemon]

is any PDK attractive ?

 

[993RS]

is any PDK attractive ?

Horses for courses mate,I think a yellow GT4 is vile - cash it in quickly.