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GT4 Values - The beginning of the End for Enthusiasts ...?!

PDK is the most common gearshift sold in a new Porsche and not for reasons of economy ( one thing I've heard said ) the very high top gear is only of use at about 70mph when the engine is doing about 2000rpm below that there is no power and we all know that the engine comes on song at around 4K but any PDK has the quickest gearshift over manual so make your own choice a fast change or not.

 
3 weeks ago I was in the USA and chatting to a Porsche collector/fanatic and race car driver. He tested a Cayman R manual against a CR PDK on a Race track - The PDK was 3 seconds a lap faster than the manual ... any driver who gets paid for his performance would pick PDK above Manual. This was also concurred by a Porsche race driver who took me round Silverstone - in his own words there is no competition regarding performance ... Just imagine a GT4 with PDK - it would be an incredible machine ... A true race car! #FightingTalk hahaha

 
who is getting paid to race there Cayman R or GT4 ?

no one I know, so best just to have more fun in a manual :)

I find them dull and uninteresting hence why I did buy the GT4 and it's great it is manual only.

yes a PDK Cayman would be fast, but then a 991 Turbo S is faster so just buy that !

 
MrDemon said:
no one I know, so best just to have more fun in a manual :)

I find them dull and uninteresting hence why I did buy the GT4 and it's great it is manual only.

People are different, get it?

 
993RS said:
MrDemon said:
no one I know, so best just to have more fun in a manual :)

I find them dull and uninteresting hence why I did buy the GT4 and it's great it is manual only.

People are different, get it?
I get it, what I don't get is PDK owners just saying it's faster, when we are not looking at very fast cars really, so pretty much a moot point about racing cars.

A drivers car will always be manual, hence the GT4 in manual and now the 991R also to be manual for driver enjoyment. that's the key word "enjoyment" and why mx5 is manual and even the Polo Gti has gone back to offering a manual as the dsg was a crap seller.

As no one here races a GT4 or a Cayman R there seems no need to gain 2/10th of a second ! and the extra attachment you get with manual really makes driving a nice hobby rather than clicking a micro switch.

 
MrDemon said:
A drivers car will always be manual, hence the GT4 in manual and now the 991R also to be manual for driver enjoyment.

The GT4 is new, an the 991R has not even made an appearance yet - most likely the swansong of the na/manual GT3 for investors - do not kid yourself too many will be driven much, if at all.

Most Porsches are now PDK, and mostly all are drivers cars e.g. 991RS, 991 GT3. How many Ferraris. M BMW's, AMG Mercedes, Lambos now offered/sold with manual.

Really, time to move on but do agree manual has a certain attraction and works very well with the CR/GT4.

 
Given that something like 80% of new Porsches are spec'd with auto/PDK transmissions, unfortunately I fear that it won't be too long before manual 'boxes will be consigned to history; it just won't be viable to spend valuable development time and costs on the option. Porsche doesn't design or build its own transmissions, so let's just hope that its suppliers (Getrag and ZF?) continue to offer suitable products in the short term at least.

On the related subject of shorter gearing for the 987/981 Caymans, I note that bgb Motorsports in the States offer Guard short ratio gear sets for gears 3-4-5-6 for $1,100 per gear, so that may be an option for those brave enough to go down that route. Perhaps Porsche will consider changing the ratios on the 981.2 GT4, but it seems doubtful given the additional expense involved modifying the base CS 'box which will continue with the long gearing suitable for the torquey flat-4 turbo cars. I suppose a lowered final drive ratio could also be an (easier?) option.

Jeff

 
never would have won with PDK vs whats was out there this year , but a manual car winning is a result and the key was driver enjoyment, NOT speed !!!

 
MrDemon said:
never would have won with PDK vs whats was out there this year , but a manual car winning is a result

How do you know? It was the whole package/value that won it. PDK would have taken nothing away, and in fact added to the experience.

 
These PDK vs manual debates are always amusing.

Porsche will use whichever transmission suits them best and overlay a marketing spin on that choice should they need to. When they offer manual only such as in the GT4 they may say it's for enjoyment and a true driver's car should be manual. When they offer PDK only, such as in the 991 GT3 they said that a manual just would not allow them to advance the car to where they wanted to take it. That wasn't necessarily referring to lap times but all the components they wanted to mate together to deliver a particular height of driving experience.

We'll see both manual and PDK for as long as:

Porsche see a market for it

Or mechanically on some limited models it's easier to do without, without affecting sales (might there have been an issue with packaging the 3.8 and PDK into the 981 (I don't mean space) that it just wasn't worth overcoming for the numbers.

Or would it make the GT4 climb far too high in taking scalps in the 991 catalogue.

Personally I think the latter. Porsche likes to carefully engineer the performance of its cars in line with the price tags, e.g engineering a tenth of a second between Boxster S and Cayman S with tens of HP difference (which must take more effort than just dropping the same engine tune into both cars (and giving them the same price tag)). It wouldn't surprise me if they omitted PDK from the GT4 because it would be a few tenths the wrong side of some benchmark vs other models. That is not to say faster is better or whatever, just the way Porsche consistently do it. But the marketing brochure will give a marketing reason why it is manual only.

Mazda are in the business of selling as many cars as possible, just like everyone else. They'll have their reasons for the MX 5 being manual only. Do they have a DCT transmission in their locker or are their auto boxes of the old type which are seconds slower and worse on MPG and emissions. Taking one of their other cars at random, the latter appears to be the case. I wouldn't expect them to put that type of box in their MX 5 either. Haven't checked their whole range but have just read that Mazda opted not to go with DCT some years back and are persevering with the traditional auto. When they have one that they feel will sell more MX 5's maybe they'll put it in. Or maybe they're putting the car in a niche slot because everyone else is moving away from manual. I don't know. But I don't think the fact that the MX 5 and Polo are manual gives us any steer as to why Porsche makes the GT4 only.

The point being, you can interpret any choice any way you like. If Porsche put a turbo diesel in the Cayman as Audi do in the TT, there'll be some people saying why that is the best choice Cayman, for whatever advantages it has over Petrol and negate all the petrol performance advantages. The fact would be Porsche would have only done it to sell more cars, even if the brochure says something different.

We'll probably have a petrol vs diesel debate now. Sorry :-(

 
I think that PDK on track and road is fab.

I don't need to have a manual box to be a real driver ... but each to their own :)

 
Likewise, I've been driving Manuals all my driving life with the occasional excursion in tiptronic and Auto mainly when I worked for Jaguar/Land Rover, while I liked manuals and never a slush box auto the PDK is the best of both worlds, manual without the slip of a torque convertor and the quick change, I rarely drive it in auto and then only until it's warmed up.

And, regarding the pleasure of a manual gear change over anything else, well as I've driven manuals for more than 45 years I've found a lot of variety, the Cayman manual with short shift is about as good as they get, apart from the occasional cable problem. I know well the feeling of a nice slick manual shift timing revs and meshing to perfection up and down the box but it has long irked me that we should have had sequential shifts as in the 1 up 4 down of a motorbike but car makers never went for it and it was an expensive aftermarket option and not available on many cars. PDK is the best option and I liked the button shift which Porsche have since we could change with both hands otherwise as a manual sequential shift using the stick and auto clutch operation, my own car has paddle shift and I'm not a great fan but in getting used to it find that when wanting a shift mid corner I use the stick since it is always in the same place, a disadvantage of the PDK being that whether paddle or button shift is fitted they are at low speed tight turns rotated out of reach and better to make sure the change is going the right way rather than hitting the wrong paddle!

 
To (mis)quote Steve McQueen, 'three pedals is life, the rest is just waiting'. ;-)

I say this partially tongue in cheek of course, and each to their own, but on a customer experience day at Silverstone a couple of years ago I never bothered even trying the paddles or stick on the PDK equipped cars. It just didn't occur or seem appropriate, (to me at any rate), so they got left in auto and deleted from my memory banks asap!

 
ChrisW said:
I think that PDK on track and road is fab.

I don't need to have a manual box to be a real driver ... but each to their own :)
but you ended up with another manual :)

 
Thread on Pistonheads - some chappy with a hobby horse on seats, let people decide for themselves and he should decide for himself.

[link=http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1544057&d=13093.78791&nmt=#seperator]http://www.pistonheads.co...791&nmt=#seperator[/link]

 
MrDemon said:
ChrisW said:
I think that PDK on track and road is fab.

I don't need to have a manual box to be a real driver ... but each to their own :)
but you ended up with another manual :)

But would I have preferred PDK had I had the option ?

What I really wanted was the GT3 suspension and Clubsport options ... which I bought. The extra power was nice and thank goodness it did not have centre lock wheels !! I will order a spare set of wheels on which I'll fit Pilot Super Sports if I can for the winter and wet use ...

I have to say that this gearbox is possibly the best that I have ever used, and yes it is fun impressing passengers with a bit of heel and toeing ... but this is vanity :)

 

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