Hi

[J.C944TurboMan]

Hi Larry, Welcome to the pleasure dome ! It starts off with sills but ends up with a smile . I do not understand how so many owners are obsessed with buying original sills and carpets ? each to there own . There are a few places that do aftermarket sill repair kits , so it might be easier for your mate , less pre fab work. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-944s-Set-of-Sills-Repair-Panels-1-2mm-thick-Free-P-P-/221280399811?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item338556f1c3 If you Google Porsche 944 Sills in the Uk it brings up a few different venders . I would not fit a £300 sill on a car that is worth £1500-£2000 that makes no sense ? What you mentioned regarding good body shells getting scraped once they have been picked clean ? The sill can be cut out and then you can prep them for a refit .

 

[Hairyarse]

I would have thought a body shop would make the sills cheaper than that ebay kit? Isn't it just flat plates with a flange bent on?

 

[944 man]

Its pretty much just that, although the actual return isnt the easiest bend to make.

 

[larry]

emailed a few people on eBay that are breaking 944's and asked if the sills were ok how much would they want for them if i came and cut them out my self and i have had a few replys saying they were rotten but one has said he is breaking a 1983 944 which has good sills and i can have both sides for £50 [] the other option is kenny ( the body shop fella i know ) has said he will compleatly do both side for £200 all in. personaly im not to bothered about using original parts but if i go cut the sills and do the repair my self i get the personal satisfaction of knowing i did it my self on a side note i managed to get most of the interior out today between other jobs ive had to do and found one of them ebay quarter panel repair parts in the boot but it's not big enough to repair whats all ready been cut out of my car

 

[robdimond]

I would say cutting sills off of a 944 intact is almost impossible, at least I would want to get paid more than the cost of a new sill from Porsche to do it! I got mine off in pieces and it took a whole day (admittedly I'm still a car bodywork novice). Very hard to drill the spot welds out with the return on the bottom of the panel in the way... really don't think this route makes sense, better to fab new ones from scratch. Fabricating approximately the right shape should be easy for any competent body-shop man. In my case (as a DIYer) there is no way I can fold up a part that big with my vice and two bits of angle iron! Also a massive seam weld across the panel without distortion is beyond my capabilities. If you're paying by the hour then getting your bodyshop man to fabricate panels is very likely the pragmatic thing to do I would say the big saving in patching the existing sills is the labour, not the cost of the panels. Fitting a full sill means drilling out a lot of spot welds, removing the front wing and a whole lot of extra painting/prep work Yes, fitting £300 worth of sills to a car worth £2000 doesn't make sense, but then I don't think any aspect of 944 ownership makes economic sense... it has to be a labour of love [] Edited to say I just re-read your post. At £200 you should bite his arm off... get it done and just enjoy the car. Striving for 944 perfection is not the route to happiness. Enjoying them warts and all almost certainly is!

 

[larry]

ORIGINAL: robdimond , At £200 you should bite his arm off... get it done and just enjoy the car. Striving for 944 perfection is not the route to happiness. Enjoying them warts and all almost certainly is!

gave him the go ahead today so hopefully he will be making a start on it tomorrow []

 

[944 man]

Get him to take pictures.

 

[larry]

ORIGINAL: 944 man Get him to take pictures.

i'll get pics while i watch him working []

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: J.C944TurboMan I would not fit a £300 sill on a car that is worth £1500-£2000 that makes no sense ?

It makes perfect sense if you want the job done properly and only want to do it once for the next 20 years. How many times have we heard of people repairing rusty sills who state they found a previous patch in there that had started to rust again? The advantage of replacing the whole sill is you are removing an entire 25 year old panel that might already have a microscopic rust molecule on the inside of the panel that you hadn't spotted. Give it a few years and that spot will now eat through from the inside and eventually appear as a bubble on the stone chip paint a few inches away from the fresh plate that replaced the original rust spot. Removing the whole panel also gives great access to treat (or replace) the inner sill that you simply can't get to with it in place.

 

[J.C944TurboMan]

I think you may have misunderstood my point . You can fit complete aftermarket sills and you will not know the difference between Original Porsche or aftermarket ones ? And the price difference is huge . The metal will still last the same length of time . If I was repairing an expensive late 944 Turbo then I would try and source original equipment from the UK or International. To repair a standard 944 it is not worth fitting brand new expensive original panel ? The 944's now are dropping in prices and not worth much . Once again it is down to each individual as to what path they take ? When you cut out a sill ? You would cut out a section of the floor pan and also the front pillar and rear wheel arch ? Then you can pick it off clean to refit to the vehicle you are repairing . You will be surprised as to what can be done ? 25-30 years ago the body repair people were a lot more versatile in what they could do ? It was normal to cut and shut body shells ! staggered cuts were good as new and strong , but some people did a straight cut ! This lead to some bad car crash fatalities , Bad reputation for cut and shuts ? It is all down to the quality of the work been done .

 

[robdimond]

You can fit complete aftermarket sills and you will not know the difference between Original Porsche or aftermarket ones ?

All the aftermarket sills I have seen are far from complete. The sill panel is all the metal from the seam inside the door shut right to the seam to the floor and middle panel, there is a complex shape on the bottom with drain holes. The aftermarket ones I'm aware of are just a flat panel that welds in to the existing sill just under the door. With a factory sill you can put it to the exact same state as it left the factory, with the same spot welds in the same places. You can't do that with any aftermarket sill I have seen.

 

[ChasR]

ORIGINAL: J.C944TurboMan I think you may have misunderstood my point . You can fit complete aftermarket sills and you will not know the difference between Original Porsche or aftermarket ones ? And the price difference is huge . The metal will still last the same length of time . If I was repairing an expensive late 944 Turbo then I would try and source original equipment from the UK or International.

I beg to differ. With British cars there is a huge gulf between pattern and genuine (Heritage) panels (as there is with VWs of old). To prove the point I have a pattern floor I bought years ago for my MGB and a genuine repair section (the former I was given by a friend from his leftovers). Both have been left out in the rain after being hacked around with. The Heritage panel still has very little rust on it. I have ended up binning the other panel (it became far too rusty to make repair panels/patches with ). Like Diver was saying, to have a job done to a good standard, cheap and quick are words rarely associated with it IMHO. Yes 944s are cheap, but I do now believe that the there is a clear difference between the sheds and the good cars which previously was not there. With almost any old car you can buy cheap and buy twice, no matter how much any of us try to forget it .

 

[larry]

hope my thread has not caused any fall outs [] a little progress today on the making of the outer sill and when hes happy with that he's going to make a start on all the inner work.

my "what i need & need to do " list is also starting to grow rear shocks X2 / DONE full interior needed indicators not working / DONE sunroof motor not making a sound drivers side door locking solenoid needs replaced elec mirrors not working full service remove tank sender and check its clean / DONE get a rear slotted valance and the one im most dreading , M.O.T

 

[robdimond]

wow, that's impressive progress! I know what a faff it is to get the shape of that rear quarter right. It looks like just a simple bit of flat steel but it's got a compound curve in it. With respect to fall outs I think a bit of healthy debate isn't going to kill anyone! I would say there are a wide spectrum of possible repairs from a factory restoration to just filling the holes with filler, it's not black and white. It looks like your chap is on the right end of the spectrum by cutting out all the rot. The previous repair mine had was the other end of the spectrum, a plate welded over the existing rust and then covered in more than 5mm of filler.

 

[larry]

agree with you about the welding patches over rust , its only going to end up eating at the patch too. i was working on a fiesta last week doing M.O.T work and that had all ready had it done to it so i had to tell the customer there was no way i was just patching it and pointed her in the direction of a complete over sill panel. I was rather impressed with kennys work today , hes even made the panel to have the crazy part at the bottom of the sil where it curves back up and down like a upside down letter U.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I've not seen an aftermarket sill for a 944 that isn't simply a piece of flat steel vaguely shaped to go over the exisiting outer, or at best replace the outer. If the body shop couldn't fabricate that for less, go somewhere else! They are a patch repair, not a proper repair, and likely to be seen as a bodge. Same with the front and rear wing sections I've seen. A full sill on both sides? I guess you'd have to have both deep pockets and a decent amount of rust to justify it? Mine wasn't nearly bad enough to warrant cutting out 95% or more of perfectly good metal, when it was possible to deal with it for perhaps a couple of hours work. I trusted the guy's opinion that you don't interfere with original, perfectly sound metalwork unless there's a good reason to do so. Regarding original parts being so much better than any other option, I'd agree that the 944 sills are an incredible bargain at c. £150 each. If needed, you probably couldn't make them for that. But, I think it's wrong to say it's never possible to get a proper repair without OEM panels. Plenty of very exotic cars are hand-built, and hand-restored, so long as the people doing the work are capable.

 

[Hallsy]

When I repaired the sills on my Eunos you'd have paid far more than that from Mazda. I'd agree though, that I'd personally prefer a partial repair unless necessary. If I had to replace the complete sill then I'd use genuine panels to retain bits such as the marker for the jacking point. Mine has had a repair done on the nearside and other than a slight step under the stonechip (which I might get redone) it is very good, and when looking through the vent it looks very clean. The offside is showing a few localised bubbles, but again, looking into the b pillar vent it looks pretty good, but I'll get a bore scope up there to look further along. Look forward to seeing some more pics of the repairs! The sound of a grinder is still ringing in my ears from when I did my Mazda!!

 

[larry]

got a lot of the electrics sorted today all indicators and hazard lights , head lights and high beams , fuel gauge sender removed pulled apart and cleaned ( the 2 wires in the sender are so delicate looking ) , temperature gauge , rear fog lights are now all working. its now got S2 turbo front and rear suspension after a bit of work to alter the front struts after finding out that the part that bolts to the hub on mine are 22mm and the S2's are only 20mm and the camber adjusting bolt hole was in a different place. still waiting for the sill's to be done (ramps been in constant use [] ) but just getting things for M.O.T sorted so once the welding is done it can go straight in to the M.O.T station.