High mileages and daily running

Guest · Jun 18, 2008

Hi,

I've been lurking here for some time after owning a 924S a while back. Ever since then I've periodically thought about getting another front engined Porsche (probably a 944 S2).

If I did it would have to be as a daily driver doing 15,000+ miles a year (admittedly mostly on the motorway) and I wondered if I could pick your brains on a few points...

* Is there any advantage to considering one of the 8v cars instead? Is there any difference in engine life and/or economy?
* Is their a finite life for a 944 and if so, what is it? When do big chunks start to need replacing?
* How much do they cost to run in comparison to a modern saloon over the same sort of mileage? I know the S2 returns fairly respectable MPG figures, but do you get stung on parts or servicing?

Basically, I have two cars at the moment - a fun car (TVR S3) and a cheap 45mpg hatchback to get me to work and back. I'm thinking of combining the two, but I don't know if 35 miles of congested, dead-straight motorway at 7am on a wet Monday morning might be a bit of a waste of a good Porsche?

zcacogp · Jun 18, 2008

Chris,

Coem on mate - how many times have you asked this question on PH? At least three, to my knowledge. And now you pop up here and ask it again - with the same username too!

Have you done the same on an MX5 forum somewhere as well? [8|]

Oli.

Wigeon Incognito · Jun 18, 2008

Welcome Chris!!

I won't repeat what I said on PH, but suffice to say there's no reason you can't make your commute more interesting!

By the way, this forum usually makes more sense - we seem to have a bit of an issue with a grudge bearer today!

Wigeon Incognito · Jun 18, 2008

Bump - for some non-PHer/so far silent PHer input.

Guest · Jun 19, 2008

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Chris,

Coem on mate - how many times have you asked this question on PH? At least three, to my knowledge. And now you pop up here and ask it again - with the same username too!

Have you done the same on an MX5 forum somewhere as well? [8|]

Oli.

Nope, I've already tried an MX5 (owning one I hasten to add, not enquiring on the forum) and it was hugely dissapointing. It didn't have the practicality to work as a daily driver, nor did it have the balance of the (front engined) Porsches I've driven.

I've got a TVR currently. I hasten to add I didn't consult any MX5 owners before getting that one either. And if only it did a few more MPG, didn't leak and would fit my bike in I'd probably use it a lot more.

You have a point though - I probably won't rush out an buy one. I'm not entirely convinced I can afford to run something interesting as a daily driver. It would have to return comfortably over 30mpg on the motorway, have a large boot, be completely watertight, reasonably affordable to service and still be good in 100,000 miles time as I'd cover that mileage in about five years currently.

poprock · Jun 19, 2008

The most satisfying 944 models to drive are the late-model Turbo and the S2. Both of those will struggle to hit your 30+mpg target on the motorway, but a 944 Lux would manage it easily. A late-model Lux with the oval dash would be plenty comfortable enough to use as a daily commuter, but still gives you that special handling feel on country roads when the weekend comes around. Just don't expect the kick in the pants that a Turbo or S2 can provide when you hit the loud pedal.

You're right to think of a 944 though, over other Porsche models. It's got a huge amount of space in the back and has no trouble carrying a bike or some Ikea shelving. Every year, I use mine to pick up a seven or eight foot Christmas tree with no bother at all. It needs a good clean afterwards, right enough "¦

appletonn · Jun 19, 2008

ORIGINAL: poprock

The most satisfying 944 models to drive are the late-model Turbo and the S2. Both of those will struggle to hit your 30+mpg target on the motorway,

I dream of exceeding 25mpg....[8|]

zcacogp · Jun 19, 2008

ORIGINAL: poprock

Both of those will struggle to hit your 30+mpg target on the motorway

I'd disagree actually ... Being enormously sad, I very carefully monitor MPG in my S2 between fillings-up.

I have four times seen in excess of 30mpg on a tank, and that's mixed motoring.

Oli.

poprock · Jun 19, 2008

Heh. How does the American phrase go? "Your mileage may vary."

Damned straight.

Regardless, for a 20 year old sports car (let's not forget the sports car part of the equation) I reckon 25""35mpg across the range is pretty bloody outstanding for motorway driving.

morris944s2john · Jun 20, 2008

MPG- on average (mixed driving) I get 26mpg out of my S2 and on a long run regularly get 30mpg or better, often 32-33mpg.

stevep2000 · Jun 20, 2008

I think the're about as good as any 20 year old performance car can be expected to be. I have 246k on the clock of my S2 & it's a daily driver. Every now & then you'll get a big nasty bill - I spent circa £3k on a top end rebuild with new cams & valve springs after one of the springs went, which is more than the car is worth. But sometimes it's the little, relatively cheap things that can make a big difference - I've recently spent about £60 having the injectors professionally cleaned, and that's made a big difference. I have a wish list which would probably run me to well over £5k. but it's about making sensible decisions on the 'Want' vs 'Need' list.
I suppose the bottom line is don't count on them being cheap, because it might not be, but you may be pleasantly surprised [

]

zcacogp · Jun 20, 2008

Steve,

Interesting - what difference did cleaning the injectors make?

246k! And I thought mine was getting old as it's heading for 140k!

Oli.

stevep2000 · Jun 20, 2008

A number of improvements from the injectors. On a subjective basis, seems to be pulling better in the upper midrange, and generally feels 'cleaner' if that makes sense? So far seems to have resolved a bit of smoking at the upper rev range also, although haven't had too many opportunities to verify that. One very noticeable & unexpected benefit is that it fires almost instantly on turnover, rather than needing to spin 3 or 4 times before catching. I bought some second hand injectors from Rennlist as I couldn't have the car off the road, & sent them to http://www.injectorcleaning.co.uk/ , althought their return post service was pretty quick, only took a couple of days. (I've got my old set around if anyone wants to try the same approach, but they obviously have big miles on them.) You do get a report back about flow before & after, but as I cleaned the set I bought rather than those that were on the car, I don't know what the improvement was.

Guest · Jun 20, 2008

Interesting, I assumed the 8vs would be less efficient. My 924S never did more than about 28mpg, but I was commuting cross-country at the time. I didn't mind the economy so much as the pint-sized tank. I had to make at least one stop if I decided to drive back home to the Westcountry (from Essex - around 200 miles) which got a little tiresome for a GT.

I think for the time being I'll try using the TVR a little more often (it's only weekends and evenings at the moment), but I'd love to go back to the front engined Porsches at some point and I'm concious that with every passing year the chance to get one that's suitable for a high-mileage daily driver is diminishing.

I can't think of anything else (with the possible exception of a rather less evocative BMW E30 Touring) that offers the combination of compact exterior dimensions, good luggage space and rear wheel drive. The benchmark for me is whether I can get a mountain bike (minus wheels) in the back and you'd struggle to do that in the current crop of 350Zs, Boxsters etc.

sawood12 · Jun 20, 2008

I average about get 25mpg out of my car which involves a 15 min blast up a dual carridgeway then another 15 mins in stop-start traffic. On a consistent long motorway run I can get another 60 or so miles out of a tank which would put me into the early 30's. If I was cruising at more sensible motorway speeds I reckon I could easily get another 5 mpg or so - so mid 30's is possible in a turbo I reckon. That is not bad and is comparable to the latest batch of modern hot-hatches, for example my mates Leon Cupra R struggles to get into the 30's on similar use and that is a modern engine with modern 20v head, ECU technology and a 6-speed box.

These cars are superb as daily runners even with high milage. They are super reliable, work better the more you use them and are very comfortable to cover long distances in. However if you have fuel economy up there on your list of concerns then you should look elsewhere. It's now costing me about £75 to fill her up and i'm getting ab/out 330 - 350 miles out of a tank so she is a bit thirsty.

Also if used as a daily runner you need to factor in a budget for misc bodywork to touch up stone chips every so often.

morris944s2john · Jun 21, 2008

Best I ever got at 70mph out of my S2 was 36mpg! Keeping just below 70mph. I think thats amazing for a 3.0L engined car.

The 944 actually has much better fuel consumption than many modern performance cars. Try getting 32mpg on a run out of an Impreza WRX or a Mazda RX-8.

Before my S2 I had a 2.0L Sierra, and in practise the 944 is only 4mpg less economic on average than the Sierra. BTW, these figures were all calucaled full tank to full tank and zeroing the trip meter.

Panzer944 · Jun 22, 2008

Chris, I have been running a 1986 oval dash 944 Lux for 4 years now as my daily driver ... got it from my fiancee (had to promise to marry her to get the keys!) and it came with 110K miles (umm ... the car - not 'management') and I have put another 55K on it since then. Although an obvious point - condition is everything and this one had been in my wife's family since 1992 so there is some history with it and it had been serviced on time - but - perhaps had not had enough preventative maintenance carried out as the car had got older. Unfortunately, I had a head gasket go and this needed a fair bit of work (around the £3-4K mark - but included new AFM, new valves and guides, injectors cleaned, new radiator, new water pump and belts/rollers, new starter motor, new leads and dizzy cap, new gear linkage and all oil seals). But, it had covered 155K at this point and, although this is a frightening sum of money to splash out on a car worth about £2.5K, I reckoned that as everything else was strong/straight/serviceable (apart from the heater - either full on or full off!) and, that in 5 or 6 years' time, the car would still be worth £2.5K (I'll never sell it anyway), it wasn't too hard a decision (... ie get the car fixed or buy a second-hand Fiesta). The thing with these old girls is that they are such fun to drive, they are refreshingly 'different' in a sea of modern bland automobilia and they do get under your skin.

Now, to answer your question properly, I remember reading in one of the Porsche mags that one should budget for £1000 a year for running a 944 ... given that I have been running this one for 4 years and the service and repair bills have been about £6.5K (including a new steering rack at 140K miles) then that's about right ... although not everyone will - I hope - endure the delights of a head gasket going. Also, I regularly get 30-32 mpg on a long run taking it easy over here on the continent (70-80 mph) and, surprisingly, some bits are really cheap (like front discs for £23 each). Happy hunting!

peanut · Jun 23, 2008

My first 86 Lux I bought in 97 It had just been fitted with a replacement used engine with 72k on the clock.

I drove the car for 8 years (75k miles) as an only car racking up as many miles as 200 per day in one job. It never let me down or failed to start on the button. The only cost in that 8 years was a battery tyres windscreen washer pump and wipers. I replaced the diode pack in the alternator myself .
These cars are astonishing . If I hadn't of spun on a R/About at 20mph and damaged the front and rear on the barriers I would still be driving it. (It drove home )

Re cost of petrol. I don't work it out any more its too depressing.
I just put £30.00 in whenever it needs it and haven't really noticed any difference in mileage because its changing weekly.

Look at it this way you can drive a Mondeo and save £5.00 per week on petrol or you can drive a beautiful super-car for that little extra

sawood12 · Jun 24, 2008

Well the most depressing thing about this whole petrol price thing is that today I calculated that $140 per barrel of oil equates to about 44p per litre. Given that it only costs the oil companies a couple of pence per litre at the most to process and distribute the oil and the garage themselves are taking minimal profit from the fuel then that is a hell of a tax windfall the government is getting. It annoys me when politicians shrug their shoulders and say there is nothing they can do about the price of oil. Well that may be true but there is a hell of alot they can do about the price of petrol and diesel!

E85 is the way to go if only it was sold at more outlets - even though it is less environmentally friendly than petrol and diesel.

peanut · Jun 24, 2008

well its like everything else. Years back the Government decided to take away all legally owned firearms from shootists and collectors alike. We all lost our sport and thousands of pounds of equipment. The illegally owned handguns just grew more and more .
We all thought they wouldn't do it so we sat on our butts and said nothing.
Same with cigarettes and with car vehicle licences We said and did nothing. Now its petrol.
It has nothing to do with green envioronment at all its simply a greedy way of collecting huge revenues over night to balance the books over the recent Banking disasters .

Eventually they will find a way to ban all classic cars or make them too difficult to run on the roads.
The tanker drivers striked and they got a unheard of 9% pay rise the only way to get anywhere is to be determined organised and persuasive.