hot hatches

[Alpine]

Just wondered what you guys think of hot hatches, what your experience is of them and why you prefer a rear drive coupe over them.

When I was younger, I always hankered after a hot hatch like Golf GTi, 205 1.9GTi, Charade GTti but I was too young at the time to own one.

When I was in my twenties I had a Saxo VTR and then an Ibiza Cupra Turbo. They both looked fantastic (both in red) but neither were good to drive. Both had a rock hard ride which made them very uncomfortable on anything other than a very smooth road; but I suppose that is part of the package with these sorts of cars.

Have been reading in this months Performance Car mag about the Renaultsport Clio Cup and the Clio 197, and they look fantastic too. They get rave review which makes me really want one, but then I think I am bound to be dissapointed going from past experiences.

What are your experiences of hot hatches, and are you ever tempted by one?

 

[cococola]

I always wanted a VW Scorrocco[8D] when I was young (showing my age) however I settled for a mk1 1300e escort with wide wheels instead 0 to 60 in about 20 minutes[]

 

[niagra]

I've had a 1.6 205 GTi which was a dog so cut my losses and drove a Metro GTi for a few years which to be honest wasn't bad!! I've had a tuned Mini Cooper (not exactly a hatch) as well which was absolutely briliant.

It is possible to get a hot hatch with rear wheel drive. I had a Sunbeam Lotus for a few years, best car I've ever owned in terms of driving experiences. 0-60 in 6.6 secs as standard, 2.2 litre Lotus engine (150bhp) with all the practicality of a hatchback (albeit a "liftback") and cheap classic insurance £105 a year (I'm 34). The only downsides are the 18 mpg, 98 RON petrol and as 944 owners will be aware about, the timing belt changes! Handling in the wet is a bit hairy as well.

I feel as if I've done the hot hatch thing and am having an early (slightly) middle age crisis by getting a Porsche although I wouldn't mind a mint Sunbeam again - maybe as a fourth car!

 

[MarkK]

Massive fan of oldskool hot hatches,was watching Fifth gear 6-8 months ago and VBH was comparing the 205gti to the current gti is it a 206?,she was raving about the oldskool lightness responsiveness of the 205,this was a car i always wanted when they were current back in the day, little while after watching the tv program went on pistonheads and after a short search found a pampered restored 93 L(one that was registered late and had no catalitic convertor) 1.9,this has been my winter thrash machine allowing the 944s to stay warm and away from the salt,thoroughly enjoying every minute of it,yes it is plasticy bad quality,can let water in through the sunroof but it is one of the most fun cars i have ever driven bar none it is a hoot,i even bought a boom boom stereo for it and started to read french performance car magazine[].
I wore the tyres out and nearly crashed because the wheels locked up on it,next day bought full set of michelin exalto tyres 200 pounds for 4!!!parts literly cost peanuts,i have my eye on a full suspension kit Bilstein for 170 pounds,this is seriously cheap fun,only problem being if you stuff/prang it there won't be much left because they are made from metal that is one grade up from the stuff you cook your christmas turkey in,if you look on google and type in "10 most dangerous cars" the 205 gti is right up there at number 1 ahead of the 996 GT2 widowmaker![]I have a mantra when i take it out into the countryside "don't crash,don't crash,don't crash" but am loving every minute.The new Clios that were mentioned are fantastic i bet,i was drooling over the new cup model in the Leicester renault showroom the other day,my brother bought a last generation cup clio a couple of years ago and took it to the ring and was overtaking some seriously fancy porsches,funnily enough they didn't feel like chatting back in the pits[]Hot hatches are great and make you feel like you are 18 again[]Next i want a renault 5 gt turbo[]

 

[Suffolk944]

Aaah I had a 5GT turbo - great little cars, ancient pushrod engine but such fun to drive. Just make sure you dont ever crash into anything in it as they have all the structural strength of a blancmange..

My only other hot hatch was a Delta HF Turbo - was a fine car too though the electrics were a bit of a 'mare.

Old school hot hatches are what it was all about, very few of the modern incarnations capture their spirit even if the performance figures can be impressive.

 

[ubertub]

Always wanted a 205 1.9 and most of my mates got them... for some reason I went down the VW Golf route.
Had all manner of Golfs over the years from 1.6GTi to 2.8 VR6 and have just bought another 26 yr old 1.6 GTi to save a few miles on the 993. To be quite honest I love driving old front wheel drive hatches. If they've got a bit of poke. So easy to drive and so forgiving if you get it a bit wrong... but a little more difficult if you're after a bit of sideways round-a-bout action, but not impossible.
Dispite getting on a bit I still think hot hatches rule, and that 197 Clio must be hoot to drive. Shame about the chav roof spoiler though... why the hell would you look for more rear wheel grip on a Clio?

 

[RC18B 911 turbo]

I'm a youngster and I don't like any hot hatches think they're bland and uninspiring and with all these boy racers tharting around in them nowadays, it has certainly put me off them. Some maybe quicker than some of our cars, but as proven earlier, on one of my favorite roads through the corners they're just no match.

 

[Justin85]

Well, I have a 205 GTI which was originally a 1.6 but now has Mi16 power. It's my third 205 GTI and I can't really imagine not owning one, TBH. I have also had the pleasure of driving most of it's rivals, old and new, and with the exception of the Clio Williams and the first Clio Cup I haven't found one I prefer. It is simply excellent fun to drive hard. It feels (and is) very light, very adjustable on the throttle and I love the way you can adjust the attitude of the car purely by using the throttle. Of course if you simply nail the throttle mid corner it will understeer, just like any front driver. The 205 is so sensitive to inputs it really feels like you drive it by the fingertips. Mine also has a Skip Brown suspension upgrade which helps the ride as well as the handling, and is perfectly comfortable for everyday use. I find it an easier car to jump in and drive very hard - I tend to appreciate the Porsche for very different qualities.

I also think the appeal of the older hatches is that you don't have to travel quite so fast to feel involved - I had a Golf GTI Mk5 last year which was great when you were wringing it's neck but dull as ditchwater for the most part. With the 205 it always feels faster than it really is because it involves you so much more.

Justin.

 

[George Elliott]

Jon,
you were'nt driving when hot hatches were hot hatches[], I was - so pls try to picture this:
its 1978
BMW was a rarity on the roads, a few 2002's and a new model called a 3 Series
Audi even more rare, with a 5cyl engine - odd
a few VW Passats
Mercedes were engineered like no other, look at an old 450SE if you ever get the chance, a 6.9 preferrably
Peugeot - Farmers Cars built to last
Renault - fragile but good design - possibly invented the Hatch Back
Citroen - Odd looking - loyal customers 2CV to Pallas
Saab - like Citroen - good cars
Volvo - antique dealers cars. I still dislike them personally
Porsche - a VW-like aircooled sports car with a good competition record.
Ferrari - something people gathered around to admire. - they did not know it was a pig to drive
Ford had perhaps 20% market share
Vauxhall the same
British Leyland perhaps 25%
Chrysler - (became Talbot) say 12%
Those last 4 manufacturers made cars like:
Escorts[], Cortinas[8|], Capris[], Granadas[&:], Fiesta[]
Vivas[], Chevettes[], Cavaliers[8|], VX4/90's[]
(all rear wheel drive, mostly live axle models)
Mini's[], Allegro[],Maxi[], Marina[], 1800/Princess[]Rover[>:]Jaguar[8|]
Simca 1100[] Sunbeam[] etc
Some of the companies possibly could not spell quality as you recognise it today. The designs were generally done by accountants - Performance versions - er... a vinal roof.......Spot Lamps.......
Average Engine Output 64bhp, or perhaps looked at in another way 64bhp per tonne. (Generally they were very lightweight by todays standards)
Lets say 97% of these cars have a thing called a Carburetor, they have Points, No ABS, some without seat belts, the windscreens are not laminated except in a few (Mercedes). And Crumple Zones - front to back bumper pal.

Into this comes a thing called a VW Golf GTI
It has 110bhp
Vented Front Discs
An Oil Cooler
It steers like its on rails
Laminated Windscreen
Inertia Reel Belts
Starts & Idles perfectly every time (Your TR7 or RS2000 won't do that)
You need to open the window to close the door easily as its doors seal & fit so well
An you can have a Diesel - 1978 Golf Diesel !!!! (My mum had one[])
Or a Cabrio - with Glass rear window and demister, and 5 layers in the Hood Material.

What I'm trying to convey is that this was a Motoring Step change. Imagine going down the A38 surrounded by all the junk above in your GTI. You could pick off loads of traffic back then as the roads were not so crowded, and the Allegro drivers would not notice anyway (the cushions in the back window blocked their view of you and they did not use their mirrors as they were too good a driver, they just held on to their square steering wheel- in fairness they had to be good drivers to find reverse gear in the thing)

No speed cameras and the gestapo were respected for solving crime not raising revenue, - so you could get on with driving.

Subsequent progress has eliminated the hot hatch advantage but at one time it was like being on a motorbike when all around you had pedals.

I wish I could explain it as it was soooooo different to today,

George
944t
964

 

[cococola]

George those were certainly the days..................GTI WOW[8D] Ford Capri OH YES![] and my Talbot Alpine[]brings back an old nightmare[]

 

[stevespic]

Back in the days i always wanted a mk 1 astra gte, but the only thing i could stretch to was a mini 1275 gt...[]

 

[RC18B 911 turbo]

Sorry about all that forgot to add that I do like the 205 GTi and Mk1 and 2 Golf GTi also like the Escort Cosworth but not really sure whether that would class as a hatch really. I was on about the modern stuff to be honest with you although I do quite like the Focus RS.

 

[Hilux]

I had the twin carbed 1600 MG Maestro (dont laugh) and on the back of that had two MG Maestro 2.0L EFi`s

Superb cars, great handling, brilliant performance (torque especially) from the EFi version, larger,roomier than the equivelant escorts etc, and drove a mental Maestro turbo, sensational (at that time) and still quick mow but oh dear..the torque steer. Then I had a Rover 220 GSi, in the dry it drove around the outside of all the opposition and went like stink, great car. A friend had the turbo version and that was a widow maker but v v fast.

My lads into Mk 1 Golf`s and now so am I (dont tell him) He`s got a 1.3 2 door and with new decent suspension and tyres it is awesome and goes really well as they are so light. He`s now building another one, stripped right down and with a 1.8 it`ll be a flyer and chasing his dad on track no doubt.

 

[Frenchy]

Owned them all 2.8 Crapi,205 1.9 GTI,5 GT Turbo, RS Turbo Mk1 and 2,Mini 1275 GT,Astra 2.0 SRI, liked them all put the 205 GTI was the best of the bunch.

I own the BMW alternative to VW Golf GTI a E30 318 iS,16V Twin Cam,M-Tec interior suspension and brakes,presently hibernating for winter but it had a little run out today,other car is a MK4 Golf GT TDI rapid mid-range diesel with 50 odd mpg.

A good mate of mine restores MK RS 2000 escorts they bring crazy money,an old one of mine recently sold for 9k.

Always fancied a VW Corrado used to babysit one when the owner worked abroad.

 

[Guest]

Hot Hatches? love 'em!

I've had ;
5 Mk2 Golf GTis
2 Mk3 Golf Gtis
2 16v Corrados
1 2.8 Audi coupe ( not technically a hot hatch, but its fast and it has a hatch!)

Some were good, some were bad, but they were all a riot to drive!

 

[Neil Haughey]

The performance level of modern hatches is very high but I find modern cars very depressing in general. You read all the reviews, they say lots of rave things then when you drive them it all feels strangely sterile, a bit like a playstation rather then reality. The GF's golf is a case in point, ok its the diesel and not the gti but it has no steering feel whatsoever and insanely sharp steering. You can easily get the front tyres to skid just by turning to fast, almost without any response from the mass of the car, very strange. The car will slide around with almost no body roll and the last Focus hire car I drove had exactly the same sort of characteristics. With a 200+ horse engine no doubt, but fun I doubt it unless you find giving yourself neck ache on roundabouts a good time.

As a complete opposite case a mate of mine loaned me a bogo 205 a few years back, not even a gti but that was a lot of fun.

 

[skattrd]

The car I drive most is a VW Scirocco, its my 2nd 'rocco and I love it, I've done 60k miles in this one in less than 2yrs. They're simple, reliable, suprisingly economical and great fun to drive .... Mine will be even more fun when I drop in the TSR engine I've recently aquired [].
'Rocco's are cheap as chips atm and I'd reccommend them to anyone.

I've been toying with getting a 205 1.9GTi, but am a bit wary about an aged French car.

It seems like most people round these parts prefer the older cars, thats prob why we have 944 type things []

 

[mik_ok]

ORIGINAL: Hilux

I had the twin carbed 1600 MG Maestro (dont laugh) and on the back of that had two MG Maestro 2.0L EFi`s

Superb cars, great handling, brilliant performance (torque especially) from the EFi version

Hehe. I had a 2.0 EFI Maestro too, and they were indeed superb cars. I loved the fact that most folks turned their noses up at them (and even now most folks snigger when you mention them) but they were a smidge faster than an 8V Mk2 Golf GTI and handled blo0dy well too. Rear ARB meant lift-off-oversteer was always available, although heavy unassisted steering (on mine at least) didn't assist in the mission to reign the tail back in. Sounded great with a K&N and a stainless exhaust. Had some great drives in that car! [8D]

 

[appletonn]

I've always had a hankering for a Lotus Sunbeam - the original RWD hot hatch. Nearly bought one a couple of years ago, but got a baby girl instead...[8|][]

There seems to be a bit of a 80s revival at the moment, what with 'Ashes to Ashes' Audi Quattro et al and i still fancy getting a tidy 205 GTI 1.9 or a Clio Williams to tidy up and keep.

 

[mik_ok]

Stoppit! A mildly tweaked Lotus Sunbeam was my first real "wild passenger ride" as a kid. The driver was very skilled and enjoyed its ability to go sideways, and to my calibrated-to-humdrum-dads-cars brain it felt absolutely stonkingly fast in a straight line (if I were to rely on rose-tinted memory alone, it's performance felt far stronger than our 944S2).

I've been chatting with Harry Metcalfe (evo magazine ed) on the evo forum about his old 20V Ur-Quattro (He had one of the last 5 to run off the production line and it was in superb condition). Unfortunately he's sold it now. 20V Ur-Q was the only real alternative I considered when we were looking at the 944S2.