hot hatches
- Thread starter Alpine
- Start date
924nutter
PCGB Member
ORIGINAL: George Elliott
Jon,
you were'nt driving when hot hatches were hot hatches[], I was - so pls try to picture this:
its 1978
BMW was a rarity on the roads, a few 2002's and a new model called a 3 Series
Audi even more rare, with a 5cyl engine - odd
a few VW Passats
Mercedes were engineered like no other, look at an old 450SE if you ever get the chance, a 6.9 preferrably
Peugeot - Farmers Cars built to last
Renault - fragile but good design - possibly invented the Hatch Back
Citroen - Odd looking - loyal customers 2CV to Pallas
Saab - like Citroen - good cars
Volvo - antique dealers cars. I still dislike them personally
Porsche - a VW-like aircooled sports car with a good competition record.
Ferrari - something people gathered around to admire. - they did not know it was a pig to drive
Ford had perhaps 20% market share
Vauxhall the same
British Leyland perhaps 25%
Chrysler - (became Talbot) say 12%
Those last 4 manufacturers made cars like:
Escorts[
Vivas[
(all rear wheel drive, mostly live axle models)
Mini's[
Simca 1100[
Some of the companies possibly could not spell quality as you recognise it today. The designs were generally done by accountants - Performance versions - er... a vinal roof.......Spot Lamps.......
Average Engine Output 64bhp, or perhaps looked at in another way 64bhp per tonne. (Generally they were very lightweight by todays standards)
Lets say 97% of these cars have a thing called a Carburetor, they have Points, No ABS, some without seat belts, the windscreens are not laminated except in a few (Mercedes). And Crumple Zones - front to back bumper pal.
Into this comes a thing called a VW Golf GTI
It has 110bhp
Vented Front Discs
An Oil Cooler
It steers like its on rails
Laminated Windscreen
Inertia Reel Belts
Starts & Idles perfectly every time (Your TR7 or RS2000 won't do that)
You need to open the window to close the door easily as its doors seal & fit so well
An you can have a Diesel - 1978 Golf Diesel !!!! (My mum had one[
Or a Cabrio - with Glass rear window and demister, and 5 layers in the Hood Material.
What I'm trying to convey is that this was a Motoring Step change. Imagine going down the A38 surrounded by all the junk above in your GTI. You could pick off loads of traffic back then as the roads were not so crowded, and the Allegro drivers would not notice anyway (the cushions in the back window blocked their view of you and they did not use their mirrors as they were too good a driver, they just held on to their square steering wheel- in fairness they had to be good drivers to find reverse gear in the thing)
No speed cameras and the gestapo were respected for solving crime not raising revenue, - so you could get on with driving.
Subsequent progress has eliminated the hot hatch advantage but at one time it was like being on a motorbike when all around you had pedals.
I wish I could explain it as it was soooooo different to today,
George
944t
964
You are so right about the Mk1 gti. I had a tuned beetle, 1835 cc lightened and balanced crank, gas-flowed heads, high lift cam twin 30 IMPE webers, equallised exhausts, raised compression ratio, large vales, and then I drove a Golf gti. This was in 1982. I have never driven another beetle.
TK2015
New member
I've had a 1.9 205 GTi, MK2 8v Golf GTi, R5 Turbo and Renault 19 16v. It's only the 205 that I miss (and even then only a bit - it was great to drive but very unreliable and built from tin foil).
My current day to day car is a MK5 Golf R32, I'm not sure that it's a hot hatch (in spirit anyway) and I certainly do not have any intention of selling the 944 Turbo as it is so much more FUN to drive []
My current day to day car is a MK5 Golf R32, I'm not sure that it's a hot hatch (in spirit anyway) and I certainly do not have any intention of selling the 944 Turbo as it is so much more FUN to drive [
]
James_G
New member
ORIGINAL: TK
My current day to day car is a MK5 Golf R32, I'm not sure that it's a hot hatch (in spirit anyway) and I certainly do not have any intention of selling the 944 Turbo as it is so much more FUN to drive [
Interested to hear that you drive an R32. If I stick with the two car approach, the R32 occurs to me to be the car I would most likely swap my 330i for. I haven't got round to driving one yet - do you rate it?
I had a Golf GLS back in the 80's that I had a little IHI turbo put on to it. Used to get up and go for those days. Not many got past me and had lots of astonished looks from people once we pulled up at the lights after a little squirt. Lots of fun until I spun a bearing at the track. Hmm, wonder if that wasn't a portent of things to come. Didnt know about baffled sumps then.[]
]
ORIGINAL: appletonn
I've always had a hankering for a Lotus Sunbeam - the original RWD hot hatch. Nearly bought one a couple of years ago, but got a baby girl instead...[8|][
Humm Sunbeam [8D], wanted one too but by the time I could afford one, most were dogs.
What I really wanted though was a Chevette !
(2.6 HSR though [
])Only ever had one hatch (Mk1 Astra SR), always hankered for RWD and had a succession of Manta's, Monza's MR2's, 200SX's
Sunbeam Lotuses (or is it Loti?) have certainly gone up in value over the last few years but not as quickly as RS2000s. I think it's something to do with the Lotus engine and 50000mile rebuilds at 3k upwards depending on spec. I bought mine 3 years ago for £3750 and sold it for £4150 last year, not bad I thought, considering that it's condition had deteriorated. You're looking at 6k plus for a minter these days!
HSR is in my dream garage too - only 50 made though
HSR is in my dream garage too - only 50 made though
Neil Haughey
New member
Well before getting my Saab 900 turbo back in 1997 I was offered one with a specially tuned engine that used to belong to an engineer from one of the F1 teams. Apparently the head work was done by cosworth. ISTR 1500 quid to 2K would have got it for me. I have learned a lot of lessons when it comes to cars over the years. I also passed up a 911 2.4S (ok LHD) a few years back on low miles, minter at 17K, need I go on.
Now I know to look out for cars that are either rare or of smallish production numbers as a starting point. The fact a car is really good and looks undervalued has proven to be irrelevant. Just look at S2 and 951 values, 951 values especially.
Now I know to look out for cars that are either rare or of smallish production numbers as a starting point. The fact a car is really good and looks undervalued has proven to be irrelevant. Just look at S2 and 951 values, 951 values especially.
TK2015
New member
It's OK
-ve: a bit lacking in torque, hugely over servoed brakes, way too much FWD bias to the 4WD, needs 10k miles to run the engine in, has a ferocious thirst for super unleaded (24mpg average with a lot of motorways, 28mpg best - motorway run, 15.6mpg worst - pressing on on local B roads), ride can be a bit choppy over very bad surfaces
+ve: very comfortable for high mileages (I do 35k+ per year), available with DSG (the perfect compromise gear box - manual for fun, a v v smooth automatic for commuting), discrete, practical - good rear leg room for the kids and a reasonable boot + the hatch and folding seats when I need to lug big loads around, good performance
On the whole I would recommend a test drive, if possible compare the DSG against the manual, they are quite different to drive and to live with.
My second car I owned was a Triumph Dolomite Sprint (2.0l 16v sohc). In standard form this kicked out about 123bhp - not bad for a BL car in 1970s. After being left standing by a Lotus Sunbeam, I decided to throw money at the Sprint, which included fast road cam, full engine balance, tuftrided crank, twin webber 45s, koni adjustable shocks and uprated suspension, plus various other mods. After a rolling road test, it was developing 150+bhp at the rear wheels. I remember the tester saying this kicked out more power than the Lotus Sunbeam he tested on the rollers - a wry smile appeared on my face.
After the mods I could out accelerate most of the cars mentioned here, I ran this car reliably for several years, until I droppped the same engine into a TR7 (but that's another story). In fact, there is a team that still runs one of the British touring car versions at Festival of Speed some years, and still gets into the top 10 from start to finish. One of BLs hidden gems.
After the mods I could out accelerate most of the cars mentioned here, I ran this car reliably for several years, until I droppped the same engine into a TR7 (but that's another story). In fact, there is a team that still runs one of the British touring car versions at Festival of Speed some years, and still gets into the top 10 from start to finish. One of BLs hidden gems.
stevep2000
Member
Like an earlier poster, I had a 205 GTI & had the Mi16 conversion -- 160 hp in a sub-900kg car, no abs, no air bags. Great fun to drive, a little bit dangerous - sort of like a bungee jump on wheels I guess! Still miss it, especially as I've noticed my old one for sale on Pistonheads at the moment.....
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