How better is the G50 box?
- Thread starter Guest
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I tried both before buying my '87 G50
The 915 was okay... just couldn't rush it (particularly going from 2nd to 3rd) and not quite as "snickey" as the G50 on the ones I tried. However, people do say the racers prefer them because they are lighter and they can be made to work pretty well.
I would try a few before dismissing an earlier car. Running a decent oil probably helps.
Any other views guys?
The 915 was okay... just couldn't rush it (particularly going from 2nd to 3rd) and not quite as "snickey" as the G50 on the ones I tried. However, people do say the racers prefer them because they are lighter and they can be made to work pretty well.
I would try a few before dismissing an earlier car. Running a decent oil probably helps.
Any other views guys?
TopCarrera
New member
I tried several G50 and 915 cars before buying my 84 coupe back in 98 and like yourself was initially set on a G50 model. I have since driven cars with both box types since.
The G50 box is easier to use and stronger. However IMHO the 915 box can be effective if you learn not to snatch changes and seems to work better when you drive well (i.e. swiftly with engine speed matching shifts). A 915 box can be rebuilt with new synchros/dogs etc... for a reasonable cost at an independent specialist.
Buy a car on general overall condition before age and a G50 box.
Look for an LSD if you can get one. I am biased because my car is an early one but the lower weight of the earlier cars with the porsche 915 box and less electric gizmos appeals somehow ......
Again buy on condition!
The G50 box is easier to use and stronger. However IMHO the 915 box can be effective if you learn not to snatch changes and seems to work better when you drive well (i.e. swiftly with engine speed matching shifts). A 915 box can be rebuilt with new synchros/dogs etc... for a reasonable cost at an independent specialist.
Buy a car on general overall condition before age and a G50 box.
Look for an LSD if you can get one. I am biased because my car is an early one but the lower weight of the earlier cars with the porsche 915 box and less electric gizmos appeals somehow ......
Again buy on condition!
Guest
New member
ORIGINAL: TopCarrera
A 915 box can be rebuilt with new synchros/dogs etc... for a reasonable cost at an independent specialist.
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There's the other consideration, are the 915 likely to suffer from more wear against a similar mileage on a G50?
Apologies for being ignorant, but when did the LSD come in and are they on all 3.2 Carreras from then on?
thanks,
a.
There are some very good aftermarket shift systems available for the 915, which can transform the gear selection and feel from sloppy to nice spring loaded gates. These devices are made by WEVO and Rennshift but are quite expensive.
Guest
New member
I don't think G50 cars are fetching anything like £3k more than 915 cars. If a car is a later example (G50 a later option) and in better condition then it's worth more money, but the actual gearbox premium on identical condition 86/87 cars wouldn't be more than £1000-£1500 IMO.
My car runs a rebuilt 915 and I am a big fan. I've not found the pedal action on G50 cars a huge amount better than mine, in fact I prefer the cable clutch, suits the stripped-out small-car feel of the early stuff to my mind. The gear selection is not all that different, the 915 is lighter, gives better ground clearance and a more satisfying drive in my opinion. Using the early 'box makes you think about matching speeds and how you move through the ratios, get it right and it's very rewarding, get it wrong and what's the worst that can happen, you have to do it again properly.
I would rather buy a lighter early car, save the G50 money and spend it on a gearbox rebuild and a new clutch, a good way to go. The 915 box will teach you lessons which can only benefit your driving, right across the board.
Just my own cheapskate opinion obviously [8D]
My car runs a rebuilt 915 and I am a big fan. I've not found the pedal action on G50 cars a huge amount better than mine, in fact I prefer the cable clutch, suits the stripped-out small-car feel of the early stuff to my mind. The gear selection is not all that different, the 915 is lighter, gives better ground clearance and a more satisfying drive in my opinion. Using the early 'box makes you think about matching speeds and how you move through the ratios, get it right and it's very rewarding, get it wrong and what's the worst that can happen, you have to do it again properly.
I would rather buy a lighter early car, save the G50 money and spend it on a gearbox rebuild and a new clutch, a good way to go. The 915 box will teach you lessons which can only benefit your driving, right across the board.
Just my own cheapskate opinion obviously [8D]
IMO the G50 was a significant step forward from the 915, and also incorporated the hydaulic clutch.
Short shift kits are not recommended for the 915 as it actually benefits from a slower throw. Many 915s can be improved by careful adjustment of the selector forks and replacement of worn bushes. The 915 is actually nicer and easier to use in lhd 911s.
Short shift kits are not recommended for the 915 as it actually benefits from a slower throw. Many 915s can be improved by careful adjustment of the selector forks and replacement of worn bushes. The 915 is actually nicer and easier to use in lhd 911s.
I have a '72 911 with a 915, and it's the 915 is excellent. I've had mine rebuilt, but the single biggest improvement was gained from fitting new nylon bushes in the linkage (myself) for about £25. As the others above say, I would buy on condition of the car, not 'box type, but would be tempted toward the weight savings of the 915.
Guest
New member
Thanks for the input guys - certainly given me a few more options. Though I wouldn't know the day to day difference between using a cable v hydraulic clutch unless I had each car to drive back to back.
What i am mainly concerned about is reliability. The last thing I want is to be stranded on top of the Alps!
What i am mainly concerned about is reliability. The last thing I want is to be stranded on top of the Alps!
The Alps!!!!!!!!!!!
Your going to find that experience very interesting during the winter months.
Your going to find that experience very interesting during the winter months.
Guest
New member
I've the turbo version of the 915 and I changed the oil to the 915 standard: Swepco 201 which did appear (after a little while) to make gear changes rather better.
It's a very direct box - you can feel each gear go in and on third (the weakest syncro if appears) you can feel the cogs slot in nicely which is rather cool.
You cannot just jam it straight into any gear though - the syncro is a different system to the G50, it aids but does not mandate.
Make absolutely sure you get a car with a limited slip diff (LSD) - it makes a massively huge difference. In snow you also get 2 wheel drive instead of the usual 1 wheel drive.
You can check the LSD the obvious way by jacking up the back on the gearbox/diff, removing the handbrake and seeing how well each back wheel is connected to the other ;o)
Graham
It's a very direct box - you can feel each gear go in and on third (the weakest syncro if appears) you can feel the cogs slot in nicely which is rather cool.
You cannot just jam it straight into any gear though - the syncro is a different system to the G50, it aids but does not mandate.
Make absolutely sure you get a car with a limited slip diff (LSD) - it makes a massively huge difference. In snow you also get 2 wheel drive instead of the usual 1 wheel drive.
You can check the LSD the obvious way by jacking up the back on the gearbox/diff, removing the handbrake and seeing how well each back wheel is connected to the other ;o)
Graham
I have found the following good points with type 915 boxes:-
Clutch's are cheaper.
The box itself is very easy to strip and rebuild and parts are cheaper.
Cars fitted with Type 915 boxes are lighter in weight and the extra weight of the G50 box adds to the pendulum handling effect.
Remember even the newest G50 box will be approx. 17 years old.
Main thing a type 915 box doesn't like is drag starts, apart from that they're pretty good once you find your way about them. Just don't expect a Toyota type gearchange from one.
Clutch's are cheaper.
The box itself is very easy to strip and rebuild and parts are cheaper.
Cars fitted with Type 915 boxes are lighter in weight and the extra weight of the G50 box adds to the pendulum handling effect.
Remember even the newest G50 box will be approx. 17 years old.
Main thing a type 915 box doesn't like is drag starts, apart from that they're pretty good once you find your way about them. Just don't expect a Toyota type gearchange from one.
Guest
New member
Is that as in every day boy racer type driving, or one drag start and you're out? I'm not one for booting it until the clutch is fully released anyway, but it if i said there would never be any tyre smoke starts or the occasional donut, then I would be lying [
] ... at the occasional V.Max for example. Having said this, even at V.max I tend to get rolling before nailing the throttle.God forbid [:'(] one of the things I loved about Ferrari was the quite mechanical, noroomforerror gear change.
Is the weight difference really that big to be noticable to everyday enthusiast?
The drag start thing is boy racer type kill it every time leaving half your tyres on the road.
The 915 box fitted to the approx 84-85 Carrera's, fitted with internal oil pump and external oil cooler is pretty good. Folk who race them over in America pay top wack for one of these boxes. They're the best 915 boxes available.
Side by side though a new G50 is a better box than a 915 but given age, ease and price of overhaul then there's not much in it.
The 915 has a more 'mechanical' feel especially when cold but you get used to it.
Quite often also, simply changing the shift linkage bushes (pennies and easy to do)and checking/adjusting the clutch cable and makes a great difference.
The 915 box fitted to the approx 84-85 Carrera's, fitted with internal oil pump and external oil cooler is pretty good. Folk who race them over in America pay top wack for one of these boxes. They're the best 915 boxes available.
Side by side though a new G50 is a better box than a 915 but given age, ease and price of overhaul then there's not much in it.
The 915 has a more 'mechanical' feel especially when cold but you get used to it.
Quite often also, simply changing the shift linkage bushes (pennies and easy to do)and checking/adjusting the clutch cable and makes a great difference.
My main consideration and the most important when buying a 911 would always be the body.
Paint, front wings and drivers 'B' pillar (they always rust here) will not leave you much change from £5k.
A full gearbox rebuild on a 915 would cost approx £1250-£1500 but you could easily half that.
And remember, mechanically they are easy cars to work on.
Paint, front wings and drivers 'B' pillar (they always rust here) will not leave you much change from £5k.
A full gearbox rebuild on a 915 would cost approx £1250-£1500 but you could easily half that.
And remember, mechanically they are easy cars to work on.
Guest
New member
Lots of good questions and lots of good answers.
The bottom line is that in the same condition, the G50 is a better gearbox. Sure a newly rebuilt 915 is going to beat a thrashed G50 but that isn't comparing apples to apples. When the G50 was introduced it was the gold standard for gearboxes. 240mm and hydraulic. Much the same gearbox saw service thru to the 993RS. These things are still in demand for 500+hp Ultimas because they are great boxes. The going rate is circa £1800 whereas a 915 is less than half that.
Now having said all that, you have to buy these cars on condition. In similar condition, a G50 will shift better but they are not all in the same condition. All the people who love their 915s are really saying one of two things. Either, I like the quirkiness because its adds character and it makes me feel like a hero when I get it right, or, it can be made to shift like a modern gearbox if you spend enough money on it []
I wouldn't rule out a 915 but I would think twice about what I want the car for. For a road car, can you put up with the quirks or will you actually love the quirks on a daily basis/Sunday drive basis? For track days, do you want the added risk of the money shift into 2nd when aiming for 4th? Most track day drivers are not race car drivers and taking away one more worry or one more thing to concentrate on is a great way of improving your enjoyment and your focus on driving. For racing, do you need the weight saving of a 915? The real numbers are 27lbs difference in gearbox weight. When you add the clutch and pressure plate its 45lbs. The 50kg myth is just that, a myth. Add a light aluminium PP and clutch you are down to a 20 something lb difference all in. You can get all the same trick gears, LSDs, clutchs etc for G50s but they have about a 20-30% price premium - generally because they are bigger and stronger. People experienceed with 915s proclaim how easy they are to work on. People experienced with both will say that G50s are also very easy to work on. Also, note that the longer G50 means the engine sits about half an inch further back making the weight distribution fractionally worse. You can't fix this but unless you race who cares - 930s are even worse with even longer gearboxes and heavy intercoolers etc slung out the back.
If I bought a 915, I would certainly get the Wevo coupler and Wevo / Seine systems / Rennshift / etc type gate shifting bits (most available thru Pelican Parts, Elephant Racing etc). BTW, I am a G50 owner, but I thought a little about a 915 swap when I had the engine out. Consensus from Pelican BBS, Patrick Motorsport etc was not to change despite some advantages for heavy track use. My final observation - do you ever hear anyone complain about G50s? Certainly not to the extent people complain about 915s. There is a reason, but if the price difference for buying a G50 is too great then, yes you can "fix" the 915 to make it a pretty good gearbox.
HTH
Richard
The bottom line is that in the same condition, the G50 is a better gearbox. Sure a newly rebuilt 915 is going to beat a thrashed G50 but that isn't comparing apples to apples. When the G50 was introduced it was the gold standard for gearboxes. 240mm and hydraulic. Much the same gearbox saw service thru to the 993RS. These things are still in demand for 500+hp Ultimas because they are great boxes. The going rate is circa £1800 whereas a 915 is less than half that.
Now having said all that, you have to buy these cars on condition. In similar condition, a G50 will shift better but they are not all in the same condition. All the people who love their 915s are really saying one of two things. Either, I like the quirkiness because its adds character and it makes me feel like a hero when I get it right, or, it can be made to shift like a modern gearbox if you spend enough money on it [
] I wouldn't rule out a 915 but I would think twice about what I want the car for. For a road car, can you put up with the quirks or will you actually love the quirks on a daily basis/Sunday drive basis? For track days, do you want the added risk of the money shift into 2nd when aiming for 4th? Most track day drivers are not race car drivers and taking away one more worry or one more thing to concentrate on is a great way of improving your enjoyment and your focus on driving. For racing, do you need the weight saving of a 915? The real numbers are 27lbs difference in gearbox weight. When you add the clutch and pressure plate its 45lbs. The 50kg myth is just that, a myth. Add a light aluminium PP and clutch you are down to a 20 something lb difference all in. You can get all the same trick gears, LSDs, clutchs etc for G50s but they have about a 20-30% price premium - generally because they are bigger and stronger. People experienceed with 915s proclaim how easy they are to work on. People experienced with both will say that G50s are also very easy to work on. Also, note that the longer G50 means the engine sits about half an inch further back making the weight distribution fractionally worse. You can't fix this but unless you race who cares - 930s are even worse with even longer gearboxes and heavy intercoolers etc slung out the back.
If I bought a 915, I would certainly get the Wevo coupler and Wevo / Seine systems / Rennshift / etc type gate shifting bits (most available thru Pelican Parts, Elephant Racing etc). BTW, I am a G50 owner, but I thought a little about a 915 swap when I had the engine out. Consensus from Pelican BBS, Patrick Motorsport etc was not to change despite some advantages for heavy track use. My final observation - do you ever hear anyone complain about G50s? Certainly not to the extent people complain about 915s. There is a reason, but if the price difference for buying a G50 is too great then, yes you can "fix" the 915 to make it a pretty good gearbox.
HTH
Richard
Guest
New member
B*gger!
Just when another avenue seems to open up, someone goes and puts aroad closed sign up!! []
Yet again, some more insightful opinion Richard ... I am learning every day and look forward to meeting you guys at some of the meetings next year.
You know, I'm still really tempted by David (Hoges) dark green LHD 964. I just cannot figure out whether the LHD would make it really difficult to re-sell when I need to. I know people rave about LHD... but this is usually because they have them :scratchhead smiley:
Just when another avenue seems to open up, someone goes and puts aroad closed sign up!! [
]Yet again, some more insightful opinion Richard ... I am learning every day and look forward to meeting you guys at some of the meetings next year.
You know, I'm still really tempted by David (Hoges) dark green LHD 964. I just cannot figure out whether the LHD would make it really difficult to re-sell when I need to. I know people rave about LHD... but this is usually because they have them :scratchhead smiley:
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