How do they get away with it?

[juliany27]

You might remember that a police driver was acquitted of driving at about 159 mph [the top speed of his police car] on a public road becasue the District Judge felt that as a specially trained driver of a high speed car he should be allowed to use it and test its' capabilities at high speed on a public road. Obviously, in view of the speed, he was not driving a Porsche [or if he was it was not tuned very well]. Equally obviously the police driver and his superiors had never heard of Brands Hatch, Silverstone, Bedford Autodrome, Snetterton, Cadwell Park, Thruxton etc. where such testing could be done safely and with absolutely no prospect of danger to the general public.
Now here's a thought. I have a nice Boxster and would like to test its' top speed and general capabilities at high speed. What is the betting if I took it on a suitably striaght[ish] public road at 2.15 a.m. with no-one [other than Plod] on the road and drove it at speeds exceeding 150 mph I would be stopped and prosecuted and the same excuse would be ignored by the Court. I am a lawyer practicing in criminal law and can imagine the howls of laughter if I tried to run the same defence. Somehow I thought that the police, and especially police drivers in fast cars, were supposed to set an example.
Can a [Porsche owning] police officer - I accept that such a creature is rare - justify to us proud Porsche drivers the testing of such a fast car on a public road where any other road user is entitled to think that any other vehicle is not exceeding the speed limit by more than 100%? And what if someone had been killed, injured or a great deal of damage caused by the police driver? It would and is no excuse to say that he is specially trained - racing circuits are for such high speeds for substantial periods of time and distance, never on public roads.
One law for us and another for them?
By the way, I think that I have found a way around the speed cameras provided that there are no photos of teh driver. All may be revealed later.
Julian

2.7 Boxster MY 2004, heated seats, Litronic, climate, Bose.

---

 

[JCB..]

Julian

It may surprise you to learn that several of the rare species that you mention, namely a Police Officer that owns a Porsche, are actually PCGB members and indeed one or two actually frequent this very section of the Forum.

Whilst our Police Force may not be perfect I believe it to be one of, if not, the finest force on the Globe. Given your occupation I'm surprised to have to point out that it is the judicial service who dish out the penalties not the Police.

For someone who claims to be a lawyer practising in criminal law you have exhibited a wanton disregard of the Police in this and previous posts. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion no matter how ill informed it might be.

However I don't believe that you are entitled to place posts on this forum with content that encourages people to disregard the law. So if you do decide to reveal your discovery rest assured it will hit the recycle bin faster than a speeding policeman!

If you want to test the top speed of your Boxster, which is actually less than 159mph, dare I suggest a quick trip to the Fatherland where it is legal.

JCB..

 

[ArBee]

I was a Fireman in a previous life for 17 odd years and drove the shiny red lorries at speeds through the very busy and conjested streets of London. The only road law I could break was the speed limit and then only when responding to an emergency call. Even the passing of a red light beleive it or not is illegal when all the blue lights and two-tone horns are on although it is an accepted practice.

It didn't happen to me thankfully but I have ex-collegues who faced prosecution and have been convicted because they had a biff going through red lights doing the public a service (driving without due care and attention). So this guy had no defence from my point of view nor the judicial system that let him off.

And as for our Police being the best on the Globe, I have worked alongside them for years and I had friends who were old bill, one who was the biggest crook I ever met! So don't quite have the same opinion as you John and I am probably not alone. As for me owning a Porsche when I was a Fireman and a public servant, no chance unless I had another form of income from somewhere!!!!

So I am with you on this one Julian, If you want to email me your wizzard weeze, I won't bin it.

 

[JCB..]

And as for our Police being the best on the Globe, I have worked alongside them for years and I had friends who were old bill, one who was the biggest crook I ever met! So don't quite have the same opinion as you John and I am probably not alone. As for me owning a Porsche when I was a Fireman and a public servant, no chance unless I had another form of income from somewhere!!!!

Ron

I'm not making a defence of what happened or its outcome just pointing out a few facts and I never claimed that our "Boys (& Girls) in Blue" were perfect - who is?

(a) Namely that it was a District Judge Bruce Morgan and not the Police that decided to aquit Pc Milton.

and

(b) That PCGB will not sanction the placing of posts on this forum that encourage people to circumvent the law.

As a public servant in several roles for almost 25 years I too worked and came in to contact with the Police on many occasions. As a member of the Royal Navy I came into contact with a number of representatives of Police forces from other countries due to circumstances that were, of course, beyond my control. I know where I would rather be taken in to custody. A night in the cells in Lisbon will quickly dispell any doubts!

I also had to undertake the role of a fireman during the first strike in 1977-78 and was privileged to have driven a Green Goddess on several occasions, under Blues and Two's , through the streets of Gloucester and Glasgow. Whilst not capable of breakneck speeds the abscence of baffles in the water tank made for some interesting moments.

I have the greatest respect for firemen and the job that they do but having some insight in to what the job involves I don't have much sympathy with the idea that they are hard done by.

JCB..

 

[vitesse]

John,
what happened to free speech?As far as I am concerned if I pay my subs,am not rude or personal nor abusive I feel free to express my opinion or speeding tip etc.All this nonsense about public sector jobs doesn't bother me in the least.People do it to live,they are no better than the rest of us,no higher morals,no better skills,it's a job.So stop pontificating at us,it's our club.

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

Regardless of how good or bad our police force is. The fact of the mater is that this officer should have been given a ban. If he was not answering an emergency call and did not display his "blues n twos" then he should be obeying the law like the rest of us have to and are subject to. Truth is, there is one law for joe public and another for them.
You only have to see how some "safety camera" (talivans) blatantly park illegally and often dangerously(in the name of safety!!!!) , to see the level of duplicity in our legal system.

 

[Guest]

That's the problem with the British Police force, they are too interested in motoring and not interested in criminals. You contradict yourselfe, a night in a foreign prison would in fact sort a lot of criminals out. Too bad not many criminals in Britain find their way into prison cells. Let's be totally honest, it's easier, safer and more lucrative to concentrate on motorists. That's why Policeing is increasingly becoming the domain of private/security companies. Why dont we just own up and rename the Police, Traffic management.

 

[JCB..]

If you are concerned about speeding, I presume that PCGB will start to police the 'on public roads' events that it publicises and endorses. I chose not to participate in the afternoon section of the Cotswold Rally as I did not want to be associated any further with the dubious driving standards and commonsense of some participants (a minority - but noticeable nonetheless) - and the blatant disregard for speed limits, and other road users - that were my misfortune to experience during the morning!

You may not accept posts that purport to circumvent the law - but you seem content to be part of a 'Club' that promotes an event where law breaking by some members is not only inevitable but condoned! Sorry, but double standards seem to exist within the Club. I suggest that it is not for you to determine whether or not Julian can declare a loophole in the law; it does not seem to me that he is inciting mass law-breaking - rather he may be providing a useful piece of information that may benefit a Club member who has the misfortune to stray a few mph over the speed limit for reasons other than a blatant disregard for the law!

Derek

What are you talking about? Even on A PCGB Trackday people are encouraged to drive within their limits. The Cotswold Rally is organised with the intention of showing off a little of the Cotswold scenery in the company of other club members. If some of said members wish to 'drive' rather than 'view' that's up to them. What makes you think that this is condoned by the Club?

As a moderator Derek it actually is up to me to decide what is a suitable post or not. like it or not even this Forum has rules.

As an ordinary club member I think that you either break the law or you don't, the concept of slightly breaking the law is absurd.

Again speaking as an ordinary member I not concerned about speeding and neither have I ever claimed not to have exceeded a speed limit. I just don't think that owning a Porsche gives you the right to drive as fast as you like, where you like

JCB..

 

[JCB..]

what happened to free speech?As far as I am concerned if I pay my subs,am not rude or personal nor abusive I feel free to express my opinion or speeding tip etc.All this nonsense about public sector jobs doesn't bother me in the least.People do it to live,they are no better than the rest of us,no higher morals,no better skills,it's a job.So stop pontificating at us,it's our club.

Colin

Nothing happened to free speech. You may indeed express your opinion - I do it enough times.

What you can't do on this forum is advise people how to circumvent the law. The Club doesn't sanction it neither does it encourage people to break the law.

I also pay my subs the same as you do.

I also think it does take a special type of person to pull the remains of a human being from a car or train crash or risk their lives to rescue people from burning buildings. (IMHO)

JCB..

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: Paul

That's the problem with the British Police force, they are too interested in motoring and not interested in criminals. You contradict yourselfe, a night in a foreign prison would in fact sort a lot of criminals out. Too bad not many criminals in Britain find their way into prison cells. Let's be totally honest, it's easier, safer and more lucrative to concentrate on motorists. That's why Policeing is increasingly becoming the domain of private/security companies. Why dont we just own up and rename the Police, Traffic management.

Because despite what you think they still deal with things like.

Racist Incidents
Burglaries
Thefts of and from motor vehicles
Domestice Violence
Acceptable Behaviour
Drugs
Serious violence against people
Personal robberies
Road traffice accidents

Your local Constabulary is required to publish a quarterly report to it's Police Authority - check it out on a Council web site near you.

I seem to be rapidly becoming a spokesman for the Police force but that is not my intention. It seems that to some people this is a very emotive subject and when they do become emotional rationality goes out the window.

JCB..

 

[THX911]

ORIGINAL: Laurence Gibbs
Truth is, there is one law for joe public and another for them.

My neighbour was left off with a few point instead of a ban in court just because he had good legal representation; he was caught doing 150mph overtaking an unmarked cop car. He knew this will be a ban, so he got a good lawyer to represent him. So if you have a good representation who can find any loopholes in the law then the judge has to respect that and give his judgement accordingly. He also added that a truck driver's case which was before him was given a ban for doing only 10mph more than the speed limit; the poor guy representated himself and all he did was pleaded guilty for speeding.

ORIGINAL: Laurence Gibbs

Regardless of how good or bad our police force is. The fact of the mater is that this officer should have been given a ban.

So if this officer didn't have a good lawyer, he would have had a ban don't you think?

 

[vitesse]

John,
why are you getting carried away by this"special kind of person"thing?It is their job.I sort of know what you mean but I wouldn't hesitate to help a policeman needing assistance,rescue someone from a car etc it's what makes us human.My wife is a radiographer,she has had to X-ray burnt corpses,Ian Brady ,thugs and viscious murderers but that is her job.My daughter is a doctor,so is her boyfriend and many times have had to stitch up drunks,thugs etc,it is their job,I think they are special but they don't.I drive everywhere on motorways at 90/95mph,so seemingly does every other sensible person,it keeps the traffic flowing and the police keep out of the way until they need some statistics.I have a clean license after 45yrs on the road and I don't hesitate to argue the case if stopped by the police.Last time they had the time wrong and refunded my money,removed the points,this was a plain clothes chase car,clearly he thought he was on a roll.I say we all have a big responsability to challenge the state at all times.Just had the 964 MOT'd,they have just installed the computer which will now allow instant fines if youare late with your MOT;what was that about "Big Brother"

Sorry about the ramble but I've just finished gardening(now there's a non-sequor for you)

 

[JCB..]

why are you getting carried away by this"special kind of person"thing?

Didn't think I was - you're the one banging on about how unspecial they are!

Just had the 964 MOT'd,they have just installed the computer which will now allow instant fines if youare late with your MOT;what was that about "Big Brother"

That's one way of looking at it - does mean less likelyhood of unsafe cars on the road!

JCB..

 

[Michael Downing]

ORIGINAL: THX911
"Officer, good to know you have a Porsche too, but I genuinely, accidently put my foot on this switch on the side and held it down while doing 70 and that is why my spoiler is up" []

I always assumed that was what the switch was for!

Cleaning? - my foot! []

 

[Michael Downing]

ORIGINAL: JCB..
That's one way of looking at it - does mean less likelyhood of unsafe cars on the road!

There is a valid question there, though. A lot of recent changes in the law have increased the 'big brother' effect, with justifications of thie type - that we don't want unsafe cars on the road etc.

But will this actually reduce the number of unsafe cars out there? Possibly, but probably not. Surely those who know they have unsafe cars but don't care will not be presenting them for an MOT, nor will they have one that is about to expire and thus trigger Big Brother's computer. Likely as not, the cars will not be taxed, insured, Mot'd or even registered.

So what effect will this change have? It will eliminate all form of 'give' in the system. So someone who honestly forgets (as I have done before now) or is unavoidably away at the time will get a fine. Were their cars unsafe? Possibly, but probably not. Did the fine achieve anything? No.

Like many recent laws, this change is difficult to resist in principle. After all, why should people be allowed to run un-MOT'd cars? However, the practical effect is merely to increase the power of civil 'servants' to make life difficult for Joe Average, does little or nothing at all about unsafe cars on the road, but, and here is the real justification, gives several photo opportunities for Ministers to tell the media about the measures they are taking to make life better for us all.

Changes such as these are killing off what respect remains for "the system" amongst those who regarded it as irritating but justified. And that is to the detriment of all of us; it could actually increase the number of unsafe cars on the road.

[/pointless rant]

 

[JCB..]

John, I respect your role and authority as a moderator - but cannot accept that you can choose to deny forum contributors and paid up members of the Club with information that may benefit them. I suggest that Julian, as a legal professional, is offering to provide information on how weaknesses in the law may be exploited; he is not stating that he would break the law - rather he poses a rhetorical argument.

My point about the Cotswold Rally is that here, on the PCGB Forum, you infer that you will police discussions about the law - yet you choose to blind- eye blatant law-breaking by Club members on the open roads on a PCGB-endorsed event; that is double standards. I'm not suggesting that the Club condones speeding, or similar transgressions, but certainly it does nothing to prevent them taking place on Club events!

I think that you are being naive in question the phrase 'slightly breaking the law'! Even the police and legal profession recognise that few of us have an accurate speedometer - hence the tolerances in enforcing speed limits. We've all braked to enter a 30 mph limit but passed the entry perhaps only 1 mph fast; that is breaking the law - but, I suggest only slightly!

Derek

A few counters..

I infer nothing I merely stated a fact that any posts that encourage people to circumvent the law will be deleted. I'm sorry that you feel unable to accept my judgement but unless I'm advised differently by a Director of the Club such posts will be moderated.

With regard to turning a blind eye to events that took place during the Cotswold Rally, I haven't attended this event for the last two years and that last PCGB event that I attended was Brands Hatch, so I'm still having trouble linking the events described by yourself and this particular forum thread.

If your momentary lapse in concentration resulted in the death of a toddler are you suggesting you should be absolved because of your unblemished record?

Finally I don't think you are being confrontational Derek, far from it, this is a forum where people come to debate. But before we start to raise the stakes by talking of censorship I would like to point out that nothing as yet has been moderated.

JCB..

 

[Guest]

well it came through , the dreaded speeding ticket ,
I bought my first porsche on may 20th ( my birthday ) and 1 hr later i thought i was done by a van on a bridge in cumbria.
now 6 weeks later it has been confirmed ( 90mph on the m6)
2 points here though , it has taken 6 weeks to catch up with me , and also the name on the conditional offer is different to my actual name ( my name is Gregor and the letter is headed Greg ),
i know its trivial but is there any basis , that these might be a technicalitIies in themselves ?

well im going down south again today and to be perfectly honest after being quite excited about 1200 miles + in the boxster over the nexts couple of days , im now not looking forward to it as i will be paranoid about every kangoo, transit , escort, etc that i see
thanks and i will read any replies when i get back on monday

 

[THX911]

ORIGINAL: saorsa
and also the name on the conditional offer is different to my actual name ( my name is Gregor and the letter is headed Greg ),
i know its trivial but is there any basis , that these might be a technicalitIies in themselves ?

They caught someone driving your car at that speed; it does not necessarily have to be you, even if you are the only one who is insured to drive it. The notice is issued to the name in which the car is registered at the DVLA. So those points can be picked up by anyone willing to do so i.e. family, friends, grandma, etc"¦as long as they have a valid driving licence []

 

[Brian Halling]

[FONT=arial"]Timeout on a speeding ticket is 17 days (14 days plus delivery time). If it was sent to the address on the vehicle's registration document then after six weeks you may have a case.

See [FONT=arial"]http:///www.pepipoo.com/ for more details of the NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution).

 

[JCB..]

Timeout on a speeding ticket is 17 days (14 days plus delivery time). If it was sent to the address on the vehicle's registration document then after six weeks you may have a case.

There are a few escape clauses.

http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/crimertonip.htm