How smooth should the gearbox be?

Guest · Jun 20, 2004

Hi

Just purchased by first 911 (1987 3.2 Targa)

Purchased it without any guarantees etc so first few miles a little nerve racking for a nervous car buyer like me (I had a pre inspection done on a 2 year old peugeot purchased from a dealership!), however after doing 800 miles in three weeks with nothing falling off or imploding feeling pretty pleased!

Only concern is the gearbox, its a G50. Although all gearchanges are crunch and grind free I do find that the change from 1st to 2nd is slow, it goes in okay but it really does feels like the gearbox will hit 2nd when it is ready it cant be rushed. When things warm up 10miles or so the change gets easier.

Any views on this would be appreciated. Is this the norm or have I got a rough un.

Car done 87k, so dont think there is much life left in the clutch if that would have any effect.

Cheers

RS

Jacob · Jun 20, 2004

Welcome to Porsche ownership!

I am guessing that the problem you are having is pretty standard for a car with your age and milage. My change is also a little slow when accelerating hard (fine when in traffic).

If you are not having any grinds or crunches I wouldn't really worry about it and just enjoy it. (it is 18 years old)

Guest · Jun 20, 2004

Yes, mine sort of 'hesitates' as it passes the gate from 1 to 2 if I really cane it, which means that fast getaways are not quite so fast (not that I ever do the 'traffic light drag', you understand !). This is why I change to 2nd as soon as the car is moving, to give myself a 'long' 2nd gear acceleration.

The rest of the changes are fine, and, as I rarely go from 2 to 1 directly, it isn't much of a problem.

ClubSport 911 · Jun 20, 2004

the change from 1st to 2nd is slow, it goes in okay but it really does feels like the gearbox will hit 2nd when it is ready it cant be rushed

My CS was 32k miles old when I got it - and was the same, and although raced, the gearbox was never re-built. When the box is hot, it is much better and the best improvement yet, was to move to Swepco 201 oil.

However, it's not perfect. I'm not saying:- "relax they all do that", but don't believe all you read about G50's being perfect. They are notchy until warm in many cars.

Rgds

Guest · Jun 20, 2004

Thanks Chaps.

I was hoping that this was a general issue. Living in a city centre it takes the first 10-15 minutes of every journey just to find a road where I can get out of 2nd. Great fun from there on though!

Interestingly mine seems to changes easier / quicker the later I leave first. Of course this could just be my imagination due to the fact that changing into 2nd at 6000rpm leaves less time to worry, with my focus on more important matters like looking where I am going and listening to the sexy roar.

Rich

Guest · Jun 20, 2004

Just read the reply from Steve

My views on the gearbox easing up when revved hard (which I dont do until the engine is fully warmed through) matches up with the comments that they tend to smooth out when warm.

Every time I start a journey I am stuck in traffic with a cold gearbox / engine which accentuates the slow change.

I feel comforted Thanks.
Rich

steh · Jun 21, 2004

hi steve,

just reading about the move to swapco oil in your gearbox. you say it was the best move you made? did your box make any noise or poor gear change before hand.
can you tell me where you got it from as i've not seen it in any of the shops i have visted.

cheers
steve

ClubSport 911 · Jun 21, 2004

I got my Swepco from Berlynn Services - Bert Gear, although the oil change itself was done by Francis Tuthill Workshops.

Alan_Armstrong · Jun 21, 2004

I also struggle with the dinosaur 915 gearbox, but have had a very thin Castrol synthetic gearbox oil put in mine now, and the difference is amazing. Although I only do 2000-3000 miles a year, I have it changed every other year.

A word of warning though, take a look at the drain plug before, 1. doing the work yourself
or 2. booking it in with a garage. On cars of our age, it's not unusual for the plug to be 'rounded off' and need replacing...not an expensive item from an OPC!

steh · Jun 21, 2004

thanks for the advice re the plug. i had my oil changed only last year so the plug is in good nick and comes of with no problems. i see you car is the same year as mine, what is your interior, reason i ask is that mine is not very popular, it has full leather seats, but includs the door panels, door caps/tops, top of dash board and rear parcel shelf aswell as the rear 1/4 panels. the door pulls are also leather and not vinly/plastic. it is all factory porsche and not been recoverd at all, totally original. all the edgeing around the door bins are leather also.

i did have mine in the concours last year at eynsham and a few people did mention it but again the only peson who had the same was a guy with a high spec turbo. mine was orderd with it as an option but not a lot of people did. it is nice and the smell of leather is very strong when you open the doors 20 years on from new. it is just a pain to keep clean .

steve

Guest · Jun 21, 2004

[FONT=Courier New"]"i see you car is the same year as mine, what is your interior, reason i ask is that mine is not very popular, it has full leather seats, but includs the door panels, door caps/tops, top of dash board and rear parcel shelf aswell as the rear 1/4 panels. the door pulls are also leather and not vinly/plastic." [FONT=verdana,geneva"]

Hmmm My 89 also has the same leather option as yours, why would you say that it is not very popular as i would have thought that it would make the car more desirable?? also my Fuch alloys are painted the same as the car (slate grey) was this an option? and while I'm on this thread my rear spoiler is all body coloured instead of having the black louvres any one else?? any ideas??.

Paul

Guest · Jun 21, 2004

I can't help myself here - but to jump in and bag the Getrag gearbox?! (G50) - But everone wants to swap their 915's for a G50.....
The 915 was made by Porsche, unlike the G50.
I know I've said all this before, but...
Has anyone with a slow gearchange considered the linkages? condition, alignment, etc?
Plus, believe it or not (sounds like some sick english TV show), the gearbox and engine mounts do have an effect on gearchanges!
If you understand that the rear axle is centre of the motor & Gearbox, and when accelerating hard, the transaxle tries to rotate anti-clockwise. In otherwords, the nose of the transaxle lifts, whilst the other end, the motor, drops.
So what does this mean, eh?
If you have tired old saggy mounts ( and hey, who hasn't), then the transaxle and engine may not be in perfect line with the gear shaft opening in the body. Hence, the slow - dragging gear change.
I know with my 915 box, to get 2nd nice and easy requires just the right juice (throttle) - I'm actually lifting the box up.
Engine & Gbox mounts will be my next job for winter.
Check it out? check your much valued service histories to see when these little rubber beauties were last replaced - if ever?
Oh and just to say to those that like waffling on about colour of leather seats and other vital stuff-- stay with the thread or join a sewing club.
Truck On[

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steh · Jun 22, 2004

hi paul

on mine the door pulls are full leather and stitched at the corners, rear parcel shelf is leather and the door tops. i have a few friends that have leather seats and other bits but not these parts. i have looked at a lot of 911s and the door tops and other bits inculdeing dash top is pvc or something else that looks very much like leather but is not.
one friend has a hard plastic dash top and another 2 has what , again looks leather but is'nt , although has leather seats
mine has also got matching wheels in body colour.
my rear spiler is body color on the edges but has the black louvres, not sure porsche ever painted these body colour, does it look good, send pic if possible.

steve

Guest · Jun 22, 2004

Just another $0.02. Even the much fabbled G50 needs some gentleness when cold. Try double de-clutching in changes between 1-2-3 until the gearbox warms. IMHO it is the only time double de-clutching is worthwhile in modern gearboxes.

Otherwise, I would echo the thought that you should ensure everything is in good working order. Once warm, I can shift my G50 very quickly, even downchanging into second or first at high rpms. If you don't already then you should learn to heel-and-toe so that your revs are matched when you downshift under braking but IMHO the G50 is a very good box.

Many years ago I was advised that 915 boxes should be shifted with a "shift-pause-shift" motion. Even if the pause in neutral is very brief, this seems to be sound advice for all Porsche gearboxes. Just a split second of pause seems to allow the synchros to catch up and smooth the engagement of the next gear.

ciao,
RB

Guest · Jun 22, 2004

Both Peter and Richard are on the money - and for what it's worth, my experience with remote gearboxes is that you cannot bang them through.

This also begs the question if the short-shift is really a good option for the 915 - I throw this in the ring only to make the point that the original Porsche designed linkage may well have been designed with the long throw in order to protect the gearbox against too-fast changes?

Alan_Armstrong · Jun 22, 2004

Checking out the linkages and mounts is also a plan for me next winter!

A friend of mine has an SC, which at present is in the body shop, but says his 915 box is slow but silky smooth, I'm going to have a drive and compare it to mine, once he's finished tarting it up!

Martin Perry · Jun 22, 2004

Many years ago I was advised that 915 boxes should be shifted with a "shift-pause-shift" motion. Even if the pause in neutral is very brief, this seems to be sound advice for all Porsche gearboxes

My 82 SC 915 box is not the happiest in the world, and grumbles especially on quick changs up into third. However, the "shift-pause-shift" method solves this problem completely and is no hassle once you get into the habit.

Guest · Jun 22, 2004

I don't think I've driven a Porsche with anything but a silky gearbox - bulky, but smooth and never leaving the impression that something was not right.

The 915 box reached it's peak with the 3.2 Carrera as Porsche engineers determined that it would not take much more power. The four-speed turbos only went to the G50 (1989) - the first five-speed to be used in the turbo cars.

The 915 is a great gearbox and one which I personally, enjoy. It makes driving the Carrera just that little more honest. Left-hooker drivers will know that digging second gear out from somewhere under the drivers seat is all part of the experience!

Guest · Jun 22, 2004

ORIGINAL: Richard Bernau

If you don't already then you should learn to heel-and-toe so that your revs are matched when you downshift under braking but IMHO the G50 is a very good box.

OK, I'm going to sound like a novice when I ask this but - hey, I am a novice but I want to learn from the experienced ones! - what is the 'heel-and-toe' technique, exactly? I've only been driving my 911 for a few months and although I'm getting used to the changes in driving style, I'm aware that driving one is not quite the same as the relatively ordinary cars I've driven previously and so, for want of a better way of putting it, currently feel that I don't truly yet know how to drive my 911 properly... [8|]

It's only recently, for instance, that I've come to realise that high-ish revs in 2nd gear at 30mph around town is the right way to drive it (it seems quite happy and smooth), whereas 3rd gear at the same speed leads to kangaroo jumps if I so much as lift or depress the accelerator. Presumably, because at that speed and in that gear, the revs are way too low - not something I'd initially think about when I've had 2nd-20mph, 3rd-30mph, 4th-40mph burned into my mind for the last umpteen years!

I'm sure these seem like daft questions or observations to the experienced ones but then a 911 is quite a different beast when the driver is new to it as I am, compared to all the previous standard-road-car-only experience that initially made me feel like I must have forgotten how to drive a car properly after my first day driving around in the Porsche! [

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