How special is the 944 Turbo S from '89 ??
- Thread starter ChrisW
- Start date
Frenchy
New member
No matter what the market does they are still seriously undervalued and underrated,40 odd grand Ford Escorts and the like........WTF.
I still think they will go up price wise as the air cooled thing is nuts, they are great but not at that money, people still want an affordable classic Porsche.
I still think they will go up price wise as the air cooled thing is nuts, they are great but not at that money, people still want an affordable classic Porsche.
It seems there are very few classic car fans anymore, everyone seems to have turned into an investment banker, all forums of varying marques are exactly the same, prices, prices, prices !!
I sold my mint, and I do mean mint S2 around this time last year , I got top money for it then and from what I can see twelve months has made no difference to the price.
People/dealers can list their cars at whatever they want, what matters is what they sell for and using the MOT database check, possibly the best used car buying tool ever, it would appear there are a lot of polished turds on the market for big money, rotten rear suspension mountings seems to be the norm, not the exception it would appear ....or sills, lower seat belt mounts , fuel lines, brake lines etc etc
Now don't get me wrong, it's nice to break even on a classic car, even a small return, but factor in proper yearly maintenance, both mechanically and cosmetically and the investment to return starts to flatline.
I've recently sold one of my classic bikes to a collector in Oz, my second one is also going, possibly after the TT this year, I've been looking at 944's again, I've had 4 and a 968, but I am looking at them differently now.
I'm not looking for a low mileage garage queen or an investment, I'm looking at the cheaper end of the market. The best reward I got out of my last 944 was ringing it's neck down the autobahn with another bunch of 924/944/968 mates, cruising through the Rhine valley or doing a fly past at Reims.
Give me fun and memories over investment potential any day of the week, life's too short.
cheers, Paul
I sold my mint, and I do mean mint S2 around this time last year , I got top money for it then and from what I can see twelve months has made no difference to the price.
People/dealers can list their cars at whatever they want, what matters is what they sell for and using the MOT database check, possibly the best used car buying tool ever, it would appear there are a lot of polished turds on the market for big money, rotten rear suspension mountings seems to be the norm, not the exception it would appear ....or sills, lower seat belt mounts , fuel lines, brake lines etc etc
Now don't get me wrong, it's nice to break even on a classic car, even a small return, but factor in proper yearly maintenance, both mechanically and cosmetically and the investment to return starts to flatline.
I've recently sold one of my classic bikes to a collector in Oz, my second one is also going, possibly after the TT this year, I've been looking at 944's again, I've had 4 and a 968, but I am looking at them differently now.
I'm not looking for a low mileage garage queen or an investment, I'm looking at the cheaper end of the market. The best reward I got out of my last 944 was ringing it's neck down the autobahn with another bunch of 924/944/968 mates, cruising through the Rhine valley or doing a fly past at Reims.
Give me fun and memories over investment potential any day of the week, life's too short.
cheers, Paul
blade7
Well-known member
"Investors" will only chuck money at old cars in a rising market, and if they think they can make money or at least get it back after swanning around in the car for a while. An old Ford in good condition or that has been properly restored will cost peanuts to run for years, you can't say that about a 944. Having owned lots of fast Escorts and Capris years ago I think prices are crazy but they have a fanatical following which is something the 944 has never really had. I think £15-20k will buy a very good Turbo for quite a while yet.
blade7 said:
I've had a dozen RS2000's and RS1600i's, had them constantly for over 25 years, I was MK2 marque registrar for the RSOC, at that time I was doing club valuations for insurance purposes, I'm glad I don't do that now as I think they are vastly over priced and over rated....not to mention a fair majority are reshelled 1100's being passed off as RS's, even some of the top priced and most collectable aren't what they appear to be ??
They have a following with lots of 'new' owners , most of the older, long term owners have sold up because the scene has been killed due to the perceived values, the guys I know who still have them tucked away rarely use them, those who sold and bought into 944's have never looked back.
Maybe the investment will cool when we leave the EU ??
blade7
Well-known member
I had around the same number or RS2's and Mexico's mixed in with several 3.0S and 2.8i Capri's. Then a S1 Escort Turbo followed by a 3dr Cosworth. The build quality of a 944 is in a different league but in comparison they are awkward to work on and still have a bit of an image issue.
blade7
Well-known member
Regarding Escort Pops being passed off as an RS, back in the day they were ridiculed. 30 odd years ago I bought a MK1 RS2 from a well known RS garage that turned out to have been re shelled into a 1300 shell. I went back with a letter from Ford and the garage owner gave me my money back pronto.
CarreraRSR
New member
PAUL RUDDY said:
Absolutely. I doubt anyone can give me enough cash to buy my 924 turbo versus the fun and memories it now gives me every week, rain or shine!! As the saying goes, cars are to be driven and not museum pieces!! The only number I care about is agreed insurance value to ensure my investment is covered if the unfortunate ever happens.
DavidL
Active member
The 86 cars and the M758 cars do appear to be the "collectors" choice. I doubt they are really any better than the rest but they are seen to be more desirable. Its chicken and egg as to what came first the car or the desirability. 968 CS are very similar. Yes a sport is the same car but no it doesn't command the market position.
I think we all get a little used to the market - 5 yrs ago the statement that £15-20k buys a good one would have brought cries of "how much" unless it was really special. Will they go up more? If the market continues as it is, maybe. The older 911 are silly figures so people look that bit further down the range.
Ferrari 400 and 308 gt4 are going up yet were the runt of the range only a few years ago.
I saw an ad for a mini clubman estate for £10 k not long ago! Why, because a ratty cooper S sold at auction for £22k last month.
If the market falls then the lesser varieties fall first.
If it means cars are worth getting a bit more work done then maybe its not all bad.
I think we all get a little used to the market - 5 yrs ago the statement that £15-20k buys a good one would have brought cries of "how much" unless it was really special. Will they go up more? If the market continues as it is, maybe. The older 911 are silly figures so people look that bit further down the range.
Ferrari 400 and 308 gt4 are going up yet were the runt of the range only a few years ago.
I saw an ad for a mini clubman estate for £10 k not long ago! Why, because a ratty cooper S sold at auction for £22k last month.
If the market falls then the lesser varieties fall first.
If it means cars are worth getting a bit more work done then maybe its not all bad.
PSH
PCGB Member
There are quite a few differences between the 86 and later cars, details have been listed before, weight being one of the most useful as a driver experience. Now when I bought my 86 things weren't so clear-cut, I know of two friends who sold their 86 cars for the later turbo's, back then it was the 'silver rose' that commanded the higher values, how things have changed. I have noted that some classic value guides are already listing the 86 as the most valuable/desirable....I had my insurance renewal through this morning, one thing I shall be changing is the agreed value as mine is well out of date...lol
Pete
Pete
blade7
Well-known member
I don't see the 86 cars making more money than 89 on Turbos. I've seen one 86 turbo I liked the look of, and that wasn't anywhere near original. If someone has got the first RHD 86 turbo imported into the country maybe it's worth more but otherwise what's the attraction ?
DavidL
Active member
That's the whole argument against "the market". What's the attraction of a or b when you just can't see it. I'd love a 1071 cooper s but it isn't going to happen at the current prices. I can't see the value there and frankly can't justify the money. It's a mini at the end of the day.
Just because I can't doesn't mean others don't or they wouldn't fetch the prices they do. What those reasons are who knows and they certainly aren't all based on the car's abilities as a car.
People keep talking about readjustments but I can't see any evidence.
What I do see are people taking advantage if they're cute enough and are prepared to take the risk. A couple of maseratis kept for a couple of years and realising a very healthy profit which then funds more. Is it a good thing, I don't know, but if I had the time and was brave enough I'd do it too.
Just because I can't doesn't mean others don't or they wouldn't fetch the prices they do. What those reasons are who knows and they certainly aren't all based on the car's abilities as a car.
People keep talking about readjustments but I can't see any evidence.
What I do see are people taking advantage if they're cute enough and are prepared to take the risk. A couple of maseratis kept for a couple of years and realising a very healthy profit which then funds more. Is it a good thing, I don't know, but if I had the time and was brave enough I'd do it too.
Frenchy
New member
Done all the Ford RS stuff pretty much owned numerous examples of all of them both standard and modified, great memories and loads of fun, but personally not itching to get back into one, especially at the prices now asked.
The early 86 turbo has a thick wall block and forged internals which cost Porsche a fortune to produce, they stopped building them.
They also homologated Them which qualifies them for classic racing unlike later models, yes they are different although they do not drive any differently on the road, that said if you want a seriuosly strong engine the early 86 turbo is the one.
The early 86 turbo has a thick wall block and forged internals which cost Porsche a fortune to produce, they stopped building them.
They also homologated Them which qualifies them for classic racing unlike later models, yes they are different although they do not drive any differently on the road, that said if you want a seriuosly strong engine the early 86 turbo is the one.
blade7
Well-known member
Frenchy said:
Jon Mitchell said only a few very early 86 turbos had a thicker wall block, and unless someone can come up with more than internet hearsay I call BS on anything other than forged cranks and pistons in all year turbo's, and forged conrods continued well after 86. At least a couple of very late UK cars have run 400 bhp + on standard bottom ends for years. The 104mm block is pretty much the starting point for people building high output engines from scratch, the siamesed cylinders, windage ports and shallower water jacket trump the 86 block.
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