humbling experience tonight

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: Fen

I don't believe that anyone here has experienced even a 6.x second 0-60, myself included. Neil has mentioned how surprisingly long a 0-60 takes measured with a G-Tech and I concur.

Aha - that reminded me of a post I made claiming a measly 5.8 secs, way back when I had finished running my engine in:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=250233&mpage=2&key=0%2D60&#250449

Gawd knows what these modern super dooper cars with times in the 3's feel like. I must measure mine again sometime and see what it does now.

 

[Hilux]

Gawd knows what these modern super dooper cars with times in the 3's feel like

I know what you mean Paul but I doubt anyone gets within a second of ANY manufacturers claims, even the journalists have trouble getting near them. To do so is to try and break the car (which is why yer average punter never ever will get those figures)

0-60 and top speeds dont give a hint of how a car performs. With the 944 Turbo its the incremental times that keep its performance contemporary ie: through the gear times and 20mph incremental times are still superb even today which was one of the primary reasons I bought one. Check out other equivalent modern cars times to see what I mean.

 

[morris944s2john]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Well the thing with modern diesel engines and comparing with petrol engined cars is that you are rarely comparing like with like. You can't compare a 2 ltr turbo diesel to a 2 ltr N/A petrol engine. The reality is that a 2 ltr turbo'd petrol engine will see off a 2 ltr turbo'd diesel engine. And the modern generation of Audi 2 ltr turbocharged direct injection petrol engines will return MPG's well into the 40's (verified by a mate of mine who has just got a new petrol A5 2.0ltr turbo, and it's not even run in yet). The technology that has brought diesel engines into the 21st century is only just starting to trickle their way through to petrol engines i.e. direct injection, sequential and variable vane turbo's etc. It wont be long before petrol engine'd cars are achieving the torque levels and economy of diesel engine'd cars.

Porsche have said they will never develop their own diesel engine (they are just about to introduce VW diesel engines into the Ceyenne and Panamera but are not developing their own) because they think the petrol engine has far more development potential left to go and by contrast diesel engine's are pretty much as good as they can ever get - the low grade, low octane fuel being their ultimate achillies heal. Internal combustion engine's are ultimately heat engines and diesel fuel burns alot cooler than petrol, and you will never get around that - petrol simply contains more energy per ltr than diesel.

Once we realise that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are not linked to global warming and the tide of political opinion swings away from the focus on CO2 emissions to the emissions which are really doing damage to our environment they'll soon see what filthy 'orrible things diesel engines are and stamp down hard on them.

I agree almost absolutely, anyone thats interested in the alternative view of climate change (largely natural- not driven by CO2) please PM me and I'll point you to some websites and papers- eg it surprises many people when they realise that global warming appears to have stopped this decade.

Having said that, the best hire car I've driven on company business was a Skoda Oktavia 1.9 turbo diesel. That thing was a rocket in first gear, although get to 4000rpm and the power is gone and the engine is nearly at the red line.

On the subject of heat engines, petrol and diesel engines could be much more efficient as most of the power is lost as heat- maybe they should look at steam engine development. Modern power stations (nuclear and coal etc) are actually steam engines that take the heat source and use a steam turbine to generate electricity- the turbine being a much better way of turning heat into electricity. Somebody needs to invent the petrol (and diesel) turbine engine. The Wankel was not quite it.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: Hilux
I know what you mean Paul but I doubt anyone gets within a second of ANY manufacturers claims, even the journalists have trouble getting near them.

I was thinking more along the lines of these cars with Traction and Launch control where you just bury the throttle and the electronics do it all for you over and over again. Mind you when you watch Jezza and his cohorts switching the systems on 'Switch on traction, press sport button, hold brake pedal for 5 seconds, pull lever for first gear, push accelerator to the floor' etc.

By the time they have done all that the lights would be red again and the Panda driver would be giggling at the next set of lights up the road

 

[morris944s2john]

I can't believe the swear filter has removed the name of a type of engine from my post![] [][]

I meant to say W A N Kel engine.

 

[944s2]

Going slightly off topic guys Modern Diesels 150bhp 270lbft torque from 2000rpm - 4000rpm 7 seats the fun you can have in gear and 135mph to boot (Autobahn)

Cornering is a wee bit on an issue though......

 

[333pg333]

As inane as it is, I did almost 5 sec flat to 100kmh as timed by my V-Box. I was disappointed but not about to break my CV, Axles, or tranny trying to better that. This was with the 3L engine in one of it's incarnations. As for Sub-4 seconds, well all sorts of Flim Flam electronic wizardry is needed for these times.
I agree that it's not always about the numbers either. You can feel like you're going quicker in a slower car. It's all done with mirrors and string don't you know.

 

[J.C944TurboMan]

I used to own an S2 and once got beat from the light on a three lane carriage way slightly going uphill with a slight right hand bend , by an Audi S4 V8 4X4 . I floored the S2 and got of before him then changed very quickly into second and my back end nearly hit his car , has my S2 went full on side ways , he had to move around me while doing a four wheel drift ! We both nearly wiped out ! Must have been good to watch for those behind us ! I had 6mm Dunlop Sport tyres fitted and still full on side ways drift ! Do not rate Dunlop in the wet ! So the moral of the storey is rear wheel drive cars are lethal in the wet ! I was running 255/45 18 tyres so I would not have survived on the standard 225 rear tyres ! The S2 in a Straight line in the wet was more forgiving but slight turn and game over . I wouldn't admit to have been beaten from the lights by a Fiat Panda ! Get them tyres changed and if you can not afford it I will lend you the money ! You are letting the side done , what we people think ! Then again most of the time they egg you on just to see you go , them crazy Panda drivers ! My mate got beat by an electric milk float once ! But the head dairy technician had fitted a Rover V8 in the back ! Site for sore eyes! Tyred to find a picture or the milk float but could only find this http://gwiz.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=600

 

[peanut]

how would you propose to beat another car off the lights when you are sitting stationary behind that car in the outside lane of two lanes of traffic ?[]

He did not 'beat me' honest ...he just surprised me with the speed he took off. I caught him easily within 70 yds but short of going over the top of him or crashing into his bumper at 60mph had no option but to put the anchors on as the two lanes became a single lane.[]

.................note to self to order some new tyres as JC is paying []

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

ORIGINAL: Fen

I don't believe that anyone here has experienced even a 6.x second 0-60, myself included. Neil has mentioned how surprisingly long a 0-60 takes measured with a G-Tech and I concur.

Aha - that reminded me of a post I made claiming a measly 5.8 secs, way back when I had finished running my engine in:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=250233&mpage=2&key=0%2D60&#250449

Gawd knows what these modern super dooper cars with times in the 3's feel like. I must measure mine again sometime and see what it does now.

Well Porsche has a reputation for undercalling stats so we might have more chance of achieving them in a Porsche. N/A cars are more susceptible to loosing performance over time than boosted cars. I read somewhere that a typical high performance N/A car could have lost as much as 5% of it's performance in as little as 5yrs. My car, though i'm crudley timing off my wrist watch, is certainly not that far off Porsches original claims when new. I'd be interested in timing it though.

Alot of modern supercars are capable of 60mph in 1st gear anyway so it's just a case of getting the clutch control right. Either way, my car when i've done a start off the line using the method I described earlier is no slouch. And are our cars particularly heavy compared with similarly sized modern cars? Modern cars must ealisy be over 1400kg's with all the airbags, sat nav etc. I don't think 1400kg's is particuarly heavy for a car the size of a 944 by modern standards. It's not exactly lightweight, but German cars never are - that's why we are still driving them 20yrs on when less substantial other manufacturers cars have long bitten the dust.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Well when I used the G-tech pro to do the tests the fastest time I managed was 5.9 seconds but in all honesty I believe that was a bit of fluke. I did a couple around 6.3 seconds that felt just as fast but alas couldn't repeat the feat. The majority of the times I got where around 7 seconds and believe me I was trying hard to nail it every time. The tiniest bit to much wheel slip or bog down and that's it 7+ seconds for sure. I did about 15 attempts in all and after failing to get anywhere near the 5.9 again I gave up and promised myself I wouldn't do it again.

It makes me wince thinking about it and I ain't ever doing it again. It was all in the name of science you see [].

You guys will likely hate me saying this but to show just how much I don't care about 0-60 nonsense I have gone and bought myself a 968 tiptronic in silver, I love it, rubbish up to about 40 mph because of the slush box and mega long 2nd gear but sings all the way up past motorway speeds in that long second. I am falling back in love with this series of cars again because as a daily use car that does the long distance GT stuff and yet works amazingly well on a race track I still even in 2008 can't think of what I would rather have.

So I have graduated up a level and own 2 Porsche's one for track/fun and one for the daily drive, anyone want to buy a Saab 9-5? one careful owner []

 

[Black_JPN]

ORIGINAL: peanut

ORIGINAL: Black_JPN

Let's not drag this thread down another S2 versus Turbo path.... []

thats exactly what you have done [] glad you are enjoying your turbo.

You probably drive the same way the Fiat driver does......eyeballs out ,wheels spins at every traffic lights[]

Qualified as an advanced driver in May this year so rocketing away from the lights really isn't my thing.