Menu toggle

Immobiliser/starter problem

I

ian harvey

PCGB Member
Member
Had a 'Toad Sterling One' immobilser/alarm fittrd in June to satisfy the cursed insurers. From that moment on I have experienced increasing problems with starting the car to the point where my car is now totally dead. At first there was simply a delay between turning the key and getting a respone from the starter, granted only a split second but that has slowly got worse to the extent that there is no life in the starter at all.

I know that this could be a coincidence but I have my doubts. Toad will charge £150 to attend if the immobiliser is not at fault so my question is what is the likelihood that the starter motor or solenoid has failed on a 60k miles car. The 'cut' into the loom for the starter was just behind the ignition barrel according to the engineer and he did solder the joint.

I would be cheaper contacting a local auto-electrical guy to check the fault but I don't think that would be fair or good customer service.

Any thoughts, particularly on the expected life of a starter would be welcome.

Ian
 
Sorry Ian, cant help, but this is exactly why I've steered away from having these types of things put on the car.

As an off the wall thought, have you considered spending the money to have it pulled out and then something like the wireless one on the other thread instead. I wonder if that would work out cheaper in the long run. I think this is going to be my approach on renewal.

Also, you would want to make sure you have a good auto electrician to take it to, I have to say I dont know who I would trust?

Hopefully someone else has some more relevent advice.
 
Hi Hugh

Thanks for your response.The problem is that the engineer has already done his worst and cut imto the loom at various points .I've just had an hour checking his handywork and its not pretty, I really need to spend some time tidying up and protecting against chafing etc.

Meanwhile my car still will not start. I do get a click from the rear of the car when I twist the key and again when I release it. Could this be the starter motor trying to do its thing but itself faulty ie no fault with the immobiliser or could there be another reason for the clicking? I do not want to have the engineer back round if the fault coicidentally lies with the starter motor, especially as they have quoted £150 for the privelidge. I'm still looking for opinions on the clicking if anyone has any qualified opinion, please. The cost of a Bosch starter, fitted, is around £300VAT fitted which wasn't too scarey, I feel.

Opinions, please.

Ian
 
Just a thought, could the clicking be a relay? Does the 964 have a relay in the starter circuit? Or is it more likely to be the starter solenoid? You could try shorting the +ve terminal of starter to see if it the starter is faulty, although with the battery in the front this is a pain to do - jump leads from a spare battery might be an easier way to check the starter.
 
Check the fuses as I am sure had something similar happen after replacing a dodgy battery.

I changed the ABS Relay but it was just the fuse. Just a thought.

I hate immobilisers too. I removed the one in my car as it was faulty when I bought the car. Have not needed one with Classicline.
 
Ian

It could well be the starter motor, I had to replace mine this year - my car has covered ~40k miles, and IIRC Chris W had to replace the starter motor on his N-GT prior to Clastres too. Apparently they are located in area which subjects them to a lot of heat so the solenoids (I think) burn out.

An exchange item is ~£300 or so + fitting

cheers
David
 
I have had my starter motor slowly gum up and become sluggish. The starter motor can be completely dismantled and rebuilt. It's a bit of a pain to get at though. I have rebuilt twice now over the years and it's still going strong.
 
Ian, your symptoms are the same as the ones I had when the motor was on its way out. Mine is now on its second replacement. Not bad for 175,000 miles really.
 
Thanks everyone

It is sounding like the motor may well be dead but 'Toad' have agreed to come and have a look at a reduced cost, maybe £50. They are very evasive, I hope I am given an accurate diagnosis

Ian
 
If you're getting a click from the starter it would suggest that power is getting through. I'd hazard a guess at it being a coincidence that the starter has given up. Doesn't excuse a poor fitment by the alarm engineer though. I would use the call out as a good excuse to point out their fitment techniques.
 
thought i would elaborate a bit. I have found when i have stripped my starter motor that the main problem lies with the bendix style throw out gear. Over time this gets covered in clutch dust and oil which then "bakes" onto the sliding parts of the gear. The gear then jams, all you'll hear is the soleniod click as the battery cant supply enough current to unstick the gear. Net result, starter motor doesn't work. On the couple of occasions i have stripped mine down the rest of the unit was in fine order.
The motor is a pain to get at being on top of the engine at a roughly 11 o clock position. It is do-able without dropping the engine but you'll struggle if you have sausages for fingers. It is only held in with two nuts , one of which is a hex nut . I have heard some people suggest lowwering the engine a little, (supported by a jack) helps. Great care has to be taken not to strain any connections when doing it that way though!
 
All

I think Laurence's analysis is spot on.

My RS had similar issues. I removed the starter motor, not an easy job (best done with accesss to a ramp), and effectively serviced it i.e. took it apart, cleaned and greased it and the problem was resolved. The location of the starter motor means that it gets very hot and dry over a number of years and eventually stops working.

I doubt very much that the Toad is to blame (in fact I think the Toad product is very good).

Damen
 
Thanks All

I can now see that the srarter is probably, coincidentally, the culprit here.Toad have agreed to have a look for a reduced fee but my car is due a trip to the garage prior to Cadwell so I will have things checked out then before I pester Toad. Thanks again.

Ian
 
As a final update, my starter has now been removed and found to be almost totally seized. I had been able to start the car since the problem began by re-charging the battery which could overcome the stiff starter, just. My garage said that the immobiliser was indirectly sharing the blame as the wiring is now effectively diverted through the security devices causing sufficient drop in voltage to fail to spin the starter! The end
 
Thought that would be the case. Did you have it serviced or replaced? If you've had it replaced, have you kept the old one (as it's easy to repair)?

Damen
 
I've been having problems with the starter occasionally for the past few months with simiiar symptoms to the OP. Although everything worked fine last tuesday week, the following day I had a job to start the car to take it to the local specialist (Crispin Manners at Oak Tree Garage, Newton Poppleford near Sidmouth) for its MOT.

Result was a new Bosche starter (exchange price £219+vat) fitted, and a new MOT with no advisories.

When I left the car Crispin did say that they'd check the earth strap, but the starter was a weakness on 964s
 
Rather frustatingly my car failed to start on Saturday, topping up the charge rectified this. I cannot be absolutely certain but I think the battery is fine by any normal measure. Either my recon starter or the immobiliser continue to be an issue here. I now wish I'd opted for the (cheaper) new starter rather than the repair to the origional as this would have eliminated that part of the equation.

My confidence in the battery is based on the fact i have a slight pressure loss on the brake boost system which necessitates a noisy re boost when I turn on the ignition. This becomes laboured if the car has been stood for more than a couple of weeks and has always been a sure sign of the battery weakening, with the slight risk that the engine would not turn over. This was not the case this weekend and based on my many year's knowledgwe of this car I pretty well know it would have started, pre immobiliser.

Apart from the satisfaction of sharing this niggle with you all, I think members should avoid intrusive immobilisers like the plague, but you knew that anyway didn't you?

Ian
 
Hi Ian , I dont know if you use a battery conditioner , if not I recommend you do . I have a C-TEK and it takes hardly any power but it cycles the battery and since I have had it have never had any more starting problems or battery replacement. A previous owner had fitted an alarm system and centralised locking to my car which I guess implies a battery drain and this used to give me no lend of problems like the alarm going off if main battery got low or even the doors refusing to open [:-] . Cheers .
 
Hi John

You're probably right, I will probably look into such a device, meanwhile I am turning-off the battery isolater by waqy of a basic test/precaution. Otherwise I'm enjoying still using the old girl for the odd blast of fun in this extended run of good weather.

Ian
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members

Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions.

Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible.

When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide.

Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned.

Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times.

Porsche
Lockton
Pirelli
Officially approved
Oracle Finance
WEX Esso
Collecting Cars
Archant Dialogue
Back
Top