Imported car - advice needed

Guest · Apr 9, 2004

I am very interested in a 1999 C4. Everything looks good but something on the registration document is confusing. The car was first registered on 9/9/99, with two former keepers. The VIN also indicates a '99 model year, from the info given in the previous 'model year' post on here, and it also has what appears to be '99 spec (side airbags, clear lenses, Litronic etc).

However, on the V5 below the previous recorded keeper is:

1. IMPORTED VEHICLE - WAS REGISTERED/USED OVERSEAS. DECLARED MANUFACTURED 1998.

I'm confused by this - it's a RHD car so why would someone have used it overseas? I'd greatly appreciate it if anyone could shed any light on this.

Thanks

Tim

Rotorhead · Apr 9, 2004

If you phone Porsche GB on 08457 911 911 they should be able to advise you. You will need the VIN, plus the code numbers on the label in the Service Book (and under the front boot lid).

The first 99 in the VIN (ie WPOZZZ99......) is not the model year, its the model number.

It sounds like it could be a personal import, possibly used previously in Europe, and possibly updated with retro-fit parts.

Grant · Apr 9, 2004

99 Model Year applys to cars manufactured between August 98 to the end of July 99, so the car can easily have been first registered in 1998.
There are other issue's with an imported car....
1/ Check what the country build specification is, this is the first number under the option codes (under boot sticker & service book) if the first number isn't C16, then the car isn't built to Uk specification & may not have some of the extra's we get as standard (e.g. full leather, aircon etc etc). If it isn't C16 walk away unless its VERY cheap.
2/ Because the car was driven abroad you won't be able to verify it hasn't had any accidents,been stolen via a UK HPI check etc. So you will need to check the car out VERY well, perhaps an AA report & OPC check.
Point is unless the price is right you are better off buying a Uk car or direct to Uk C16 import.
With regards to why RHD used abroad, an example could be armed forces personnel as they have tax advantages in buying the car during oversea's postings & then make a margin come re-sale in the UK. Still need s some major "Sherlocking" B4 U buy.

Guest · Apr 13, 2004

So it looks like this car is something like a forces import, but with a non-UK spec. God knows why! But it is a 99 model year and was only abroad for a few months. I am going to try and chase it up with Porsche tomorrow. Anyone have a feel for how much cheaper it should be because of this? It is a very well specced C4 and the dealer is offering a full OPC check and warranty in with the price.

BTW I am a member but this forum thinks I'm not ...

Guest · Apr 13, 2004

I meant to say it has C45 at the beginning of the option codes instead of C16.

Grant · Apr 13, 2004

Early UK/C16 1998C2's now "start" retail at around the £30k mark (although the trade price is obviously lower) but much depends on mileage, colour, spec, condition etc.
How much is the car priced at & what is it's mileage, spec, service history etc ?

Guest · Apr 13, 2004

It's a C4, 99 T, good spec (electric heated memory seats, sunroof, computer, cruise, CD changer, clear lenses, Litronic headlamps with washers, parking assist, tracker) 34000 miles, appears to be in excellent condition. Service history is ok but the most recent service was done by PCT (Autobahn), not an OPC. It's priced at 39 but being offered at 37 including a full 1 year Porsche warranty.

tim court · Apr 13, 2004

If OPC give the car a clean bill of health what is the problem??? Lots of people imported cars with uk spec and european build didn't they???

Why should it be so much cheaper used than a C16 build if the spec is right just cos one owner saved a packet (because UK dealers were greedy). Good luck to him!!

Guest · Apr 13, 2004

I would guess that the car was bought as a UK spec directly from the factory or from a dealer in Europe (if EU spec). Otherwise check whether it is an import from a RHD country such as Japan.

With reference to the year of manufacture the only explanation is that there was a mistake by the DVLA during the registration process.

Try and find out some more info, if you are not convinced walk away there are plenty of cars around and it is worth waiting for a good one. otherwise get it checked out by a independant such as JZ or Camtune, for a couple of hundred pounds they will put your mind at ease.

good luck

Rotorhead · Apr 14, 2004

All the information, including dates, original spec., service history etc will be in the Service Book. If this doesn't exist then ask for the original sales invoice and all past service invoices. If these don't exist then there is a serious black hole in its history, that you would have to explain if you ever came to re-sell it.

Mark_Bennett · Apr 14, 2004

ORIGINAL: Flatnose

I would guess that the car was bought as a UK spec directly from the factory or from a dealer in Europe

Not if it does not say C16.
You can spec the car with the same options as a UK car, but unless it says C16 this can mean it still has different spec. This can affect engine mapping (for different emmissions standards dependant on Market), anti-corrosion materials, wiring looms (C16 on a Boxster used to include CD changer wiring - whether you had one or not!), top tint on the windscreen, Alarm/Imobiliser, and other items.
I have not managed to turn up what C45 is - has anyone any idea? (If right hand drive it could be Japanese or Australian, amongst others...)

lee fulford · Apr 14, 2004

ORIGINAL: tim court

Why should it be so much cheaper used than a C16 build if the spec is right just cos one owner saved a packet (because UK dealers were greedy). Good luck to him!!

It's not the UK dealers that are greedy, it's Porsche AG.

Tim check the PDI stamp in the front of the service book. That will at least tell you where the car was first registered and by who.

lee

Grant · Apr 14, 2004

Sorry to say that in my opinion (for what it's worth) £37,000 isn't cheap enough for a non-C16 (C45!!) import that also has a "hidden" history whilst being run abroad by the first owner. This is a 1998 car, that is registered as 99 in the Uk as this is when it was imported.
FACT...you CAN pick up a 98 (99MY) C4 that is well specified & IS FULL UK/C16 SPECIFICATION for less than £37k so what is the benefit of buying this car ?
It has an uncertain history

It isn't Uk specification

You will have hassle selling it come re-sale time because it isn't C16 & people will want to pay less.

You will pay extra insurance unless you can PROVE it was destined for an EEC country & is now 100% UK specified (including the Thatcham cat 1 approved standard UKalarm)

The bottom line is, there is only one benefit to buying a non-C16 import A CHEAP PRICE & this car hasn't got one.

TISPKJ · Apr 14, 2004

You may find that it is something silly like the certificate of conformity that has 1998 on it and some muppet at DVLC has used this as the model year, dont forget also that 99 model year started Sep 98.

It does seem like the car was registered abroad though, DVLC used to put that clause on the log book even though the car was new, but because it was registered with plates for export they classed it as used....... this has now been ammended on imports.

C16 should be on the options list but this was sometimes missed accidently by Porsche to mess up people importing the cars direct from europe, my car was orderd C16 and was after conformation from the factory but had the C16 tag forgoten somehow ..... Just another way of Porsche putting you off buying from europe im affraid.

Regards
PKJ

Guest · Apr 14, 2004

I now have the news from Porsche. The car was originally delivered to Singapore, to Singapore/Malaysian spec, and was then reimported to the UK.

I am also awaiting a letter from Porsche which the dealer has which apparently will 'make everything clear'. Haha!

It's obvious that £37k is too much for a car with a dodgy history - the £37k sounded ok for a well specced car with a perfect history. The only question now is what price would make it reasonable. My office mate says offer them £25k

Any other suggestions?

Rodney Naghar · Apr 14, 2004

Whatever you end up paying (saving?) you will be passing on the discount to the next buyer anyway. That is assuming you have the patience to wait for a new buyer who is willing to put up with the 'dodgy' history.

Grant · Apr 15, 2004

ORIGINAL: tjphillips
I now have the news from Porsche. The car was originally delivered to Singapore, to Singapore/Malaysian spec, and was then reimported to the UK.
I am also awaiting a letter from Porsche which the dealer has which apparently will 'make everything clear'. Haha!
It's obvious that £37k is too much for a car with a dodgy history - the £37k sounded ok for a well specced car with a perfect history. The only question now is what price would make it reasonable. My office mate says offer them £25k Any other suggestions?

The dealer won't have much more than 5k max in the car, so I think you can forget £25k!!!
Personally I'd shop around & wait until the right (C16) car comes up in the Sunday Times/ Top Marques mags & websites, privately & then get your negotiating hat on. A 99MY C4 is a good choice & I am 100% confident you will get a proper car for less than £37k privately & it will be worth the wait !

tim court · Apr 15, 2004

Intersetingly C45 doesn't appear on this useful site....

http://www.kindel.com/Porsche/options.asp

Guest · Apr 17, 2004

The final upshot about this car is that they finally owned up about its history, after I proved it all to them, but are arguing that the car is the same value as it was before. I asked them to drop the price significantly, but they refused, and have also refused to refund my deposit. Bastards!

I am arguing that I was misled and will involve Trading Standards, solicitor etc as necessary. Cautionary tale for everyone else.

Is there a way to report dodgy dealers to the rest of PCGB?

Guest · Apr 17, 2004

name and shame ! It's only libel if you post anything that is untrue. I believe that Porsche UK read this site (I may be wrong) so reveal the name of the dealer that has been less than 100% upfront with you.

On the plus side, I've spent some time in Singapore and would expect that their spec is pretty high and may even be above that of the UK. The only concievable difference to me would be in the engine mapping given their emissions laws but ....wow..... that can be re-set ! Let's face it, the cars are built in the same factories and who cares if the delivery inspection and customer preparation was carried out by someone called Fritz, Jan, Pedro or Dave. It's a Porsche in the same way that a diamond is a diamond if I buy it in Cape Town, Rio or Hatton Garden.

I imported my car from the Amsterdam OPC where they employ very sexy blonde receptionists, serve excellent coffee, love their products and I'll openly admit, I saved a packet when the Euro was worth 56p. I'll be completely open about this when I sell the car on but why should I expect less than the market value ? If I worked for a bank and had a cheap mortgage, would I drop the price of my house ... errrrrr .............. no ! If I had collected my car from the factory and drove it back from Stuttgart, would the nationality of the dealer to whom I handed over the cash (and would only ever clap eyes on the car if they did the servicing) really make a difference ????? ..... errrrrrrrrrr ............... no again ! There is also no added value in that my car was built in Stuttgart and not Usikapunkii (or wherever).

Let's get rid of these silly hang-ups. There is no difference in value if a Boxster is built in Stuttgart or Finland nor is there a problem if a Cayenne is built in a former communist dictatorship. Not that I would ever buy a Cayenne

If your car started it's life in a country cleaner than Switzerland where Phillipino women sterlilise the streets twice a day with toothbrushes and boiled French mineral water then thank your lucky stars that it missed a British winter with salt lorries and speed bumps.

keep us posted