Improved braking

[Hilux]

get the sump baffled for sure.

Is this relevant to the turbos?

I swapped my sump and was quite impressed with the baffling. Is it insufficient? I`m surprised as it has the deep `box` with the pickup pipe low down.

 

[333pg333]

The standard sump is a good basic design for spirited hwy cruising and mild track work, but once you really start to push it especially on non-road tyres, ...well there are lots of stories of spun bearings to put you to sleep with. lol. Also it depends what oil and viscosity you use. The propaganda king M1 with it's synthetic low viscosity will offer very little in oil suspension between all the shiny bits. This can increase the chances of metal to metal contact. Once that happens for a split second, it's time for a new engine. I am convinced of dry sumping now as the only way to go for a motor that you are going to stress highly. Especially if you start pouring $$$ into the car. Having said that if you don't want to go down that path yet, I would consider a crank scraper and custom windage tray +oil squirters as a good form of protection.
IMHO of course.

 

[944Turbo]

M1 comes in 15w50 as well as 0w40, I always swore by it, but I have now swapped to silkolene Pro R 15w50 and think it is even better and its slightly cheaper than M1 especially in 20litre cans. I have used slicks and treaded r rubberon track days but ensure the oil level is kept near the top of the dipstick.
My engine after 180k miles (80k in various states of modification) was still looking pretty good, when the head came off for a refresh.
Tony

 

[Hilux]

I am convinced of dry sumping now as the only way to go for a motor that you are going to stress highly.

I understand your sentiment having tracked a Westfield where the necessary shallow sumps were prone to surge on slicks however I consider that the standard sump side surge baffling is easily improved particularly as the design has a deep sump `box` section. Anyone agree?

Dry sumping aint cheap and it only takes a drivebelt to fail and your engines toast too.

I note people on this forum track/race on slicks. What adaptations have y`all carried out (if any) to the standard turbo sump?

 

[Fen]

Something I was always interested in (though didn't try) is an Accusump which injects a volume of oil at pressure if it detects pressure drop.

 

[333pg333]

There seems to be a divided feeling about Accusumps on Rennlist anyway. Check with Chris White.

 

[edh]

There's also a mod I read about on Rennlist that looks a good idea - is it called a windage plate? sits under the crank & easily fitted when the sump's off.

originally intended for 928's, who suffer much worse from oil related problems on track, but also for 944's - made in Europe somewhere

sorry for being vague - can't remember anything else

 

[Diver944]

When I first picked up my car and Simon and I were putting a few hundred miles on it he gave me a very good description of how the oil system works on our car and how a dry sump with a swirl pot would improve it. If he see's this post maybe he can recall his words of wisdom better than I ever could [8|]

 

[Hilux]

There's also a mod I read about on Rennlist that looks a good idea - is it called a windage plate? sits under the crank & easily fitted when the sump's off.

I think a top baffle plate with a hole for dipstick and pickup pipe is the key.

951 sump with baffles but it still allows oil to slop over the horizontal baffle

I had this shallow winged trapdoor baffled sump made for my G27.

The top baffle plate ensured that oil stayed in the box sump side to side

I am sure that this principle will work on the box sump of a 944

 

[333pg333]

I had ordered the Windage tray from Chris White before I decided to go for dry sumping. There is also info available on crank scrapers which have been around since the '50's.

 

[Hilux]

I had ordered the Windage tray

Piccies?

 

[333pg333]

I don't know how to post links on this site but if you go to Rennlist and use the advanced search function, select the 944 and 951 area, and search 'Windage Trays' there's plenty of info. The crank scrapers look like a good basic idea and addition too.

 

[Hilux]

Quotes taken from a Rennlist thread.......the 1st and 3rd quotes are from Chris White.....................

1G braking is much worse at "˜redistributing' the oil than cornering. The oil moving away from the pick up is an old fallacy; it won't happen unless you let the oil level get way below the low mark. The bearing failure looks like oil pick up starvation but it is actually caused by aerated oil and some pretty crappy oil passages in the crank.

I agree.

Braking will move your oil to the front of the pan, kick it up into the crank etc.. but, all people I asked, had failures while exiting corners under throttle.

Take the "˜but' out and then reread the sentence and think about it.

The oil sloshes forward under braking and gets severely aerated, then the engine goes through a "˜no load' period while turning in and then load it up at the apex and boom "" the combination of aerated oil, engine load and increasing RPMs take out another rod bearing.. An engine that is starving for oil while not being loaded will start to wear the bearings but not catastrophically, only once you add power will it really do damage.

Bearings don't usually fail immediately "" it can take a couple of seconds to really trash a rod bearing.

I`m afraid I have to agree with this Chris White. He seems to know his stuff. The Westfield boyos (of which I was one) have huge experience with this issue of oil surge. The cars are low so need shallow sumps. The only way is to go dry sump as any Westy on slicks will get oil surge. The bike engined cars are fine with black bird engines (deep pot sump) but busa`s and others have to be dry sumped. My redtop VX xe had an SBD shallow fully baffled sump and it was fine on sticky road/track tyres (even at Gerrards)

Looking at the 951 sump it has a `pot` bottom. Properly baffled I cannot see how you would get the oil to uncover the pickup unless you had phenominal cornering and braking ergo a top baffle with a downward slope to the pick up pipe will 1) prevent oil `sloshing around 2) prevent large quantities of oil hitting the crank where its aerated. A top baffle restricts and directs the returning oil which collects and is directed back to the top of the pot thereby allowing more de-aerating time?

Dry sumping with a swirl pot to remove cavitated/aerated oil is ideal but expensive and I`m not convinced that it is actually necessary. (Waits to be shot down in flames)

 

[333pg333]

Chris sells windage trays. It is he who I was going to get one through until I made my decision to go dry sump. He also isn't a fan of the Accusump system. I have gone for the dry sump because I have done bearings in two motors through racing and I'm sick of the ensuing dollars spent to rebuild the engine. I am sinking quite a lot of dosh on my current rebuild so this is an expensive insurance policy. Aren't they all?

 

[Hilux]

I have done bearings in two motors through racing

AAAhhhaaaaa, you race......................dry sump it is then []

 

[333pg333]

That's club racing, not door handle bashing at this stage, but it still pushes the car beyond what it was initially built for. I will be looking for significant increases in power and torque with the rebuild so the dry sump seemed the best choice of oiling systems.