Is a 944 the best buy???

[pae]

Well, here's one....

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=128107

below budget but possibly not as highly specced as you want.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: martincammack

.............

(p.s. Please refrain from the usual suggestion of cost to run the 928. When you get one you realise it's one of many a myth surrounding the 928.)

So a 5.0 ltr V8 (two Lux engines) and an absolute forest of electrics is going to be economical to run and cheap to fix then? [] I know which one I'd rather replace the spark plugs on. If you want a V8 buy a Range Rover, it could well be cheaper.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Fen

I've just read every post in this thread again and there isn't anyone talking nonsense I can see. I disagree that most S2 cabs have air-con (and I said so) based on my experience of looking for one a couple of years ago.

I was talking nonsense []. Searching for 944s with air, I always saw so many more cabriolets than coupes I assumed it was standard or at least very common for the cab, but it looks like only 5-10% or something do actually have it (compared to something like 2-4% of coupes).

Anyway, if A/C is a non-issue, then a 944S2 coupe is excellent, with a pretty cheap total cost of ownership (despite the £1000 p.a. maintenance costs). £8K will buy a good one and pay for any due maintenance if you choose carefully.

Tom

 

[millisland]

if A/C is a non-issue, then a 944S2 coupe is excellent

IMO, a coupe without air conditioning is a no no, this is a car with a lot of glass and can get very hot indeed. I also use the A/C in winter to remove moisture. When I bought my 944 Turbo, I insisted on A/C and have never regretted it. And as a matter of interest, my car is now 15 years old and it was only a few months ago that I had it regassed for the first time since it was new.

 

[Guest]

I agree that the A/C is necessary in a 944, however if it quits on you, it can get VERY pricey, and from what I've heard, they have a tendency to go wrong anyhow. Certainly mine doesn't work (it blows the relay because of an oveloading/binding compressor, and the cost of that along with a new condensor for the R12 change means I just open the roof!!!)

 

[944Turbo]

Best source for replacement compressor I have found is here http://www.944online.com/cgi-local/ASI_Store.cgi?Product+skukey_20051188+944turbo+climatecontrol-944turbo as part of an upgrade kit. I think the compressor is aftermarket but it comes with the necessary brakets.
Failing that cool it down in Dorchester can rebuild the compressors and Noel is a keen club member.
Tony

 

[colin129]

ORIGINAL: martincammack

I note also above the suggestion that a 928 would have trouble keeping up with an S2, a couple of speedsters and a 964. I will draw attention to the comment but can't be bothered to laugh.

It depends how you drive it and I don't hang about when I am in the right mood.[] Also, I wanted to stand up for the honour of front engined Porsches.[8D] I am sure the 928 could have kept up if I was driving it[]

 

[sawood12]

Just a few notes on my experiances of 944 turbo ownership 13 months in. I get my tubo serviced at a Porsche specialists and not the OPC. I find that a major 12k mile/annual service at £230 is very reasonable and far more comprehensive than the equivalent service from the OPC (I don't bother with the 6k services as I use mine fairly regularlay throughout the year) and you also get the personal touch that you expect from a small friendly garage compared to the faceless corporate 'service'. I always like to see the guy who actually going to be working on my car. I get very uneasy at the thought of an uninterested inexperianced spotty youth working on my car.
Apart from voluntary mods my only other running costs are:-
£200 to get an oil leak sorted
£160 to get the A/C recharged and serviced (probably an annual cost but simple recharge without service is only £60)
£150 to get a Air Flow Meter replaced and set up (2nd hand part)
On the horizon all i've got on my list is to replace the alternator (£45+vat for a 2nd had part). Other than that she's fine for now. Something's usually is flagged at MOT time - last year it was corroded break pipes - less than £100 to fix by a local trusted mechanic i've used for years. I'm used to running older cars and based on my experiances and considering it's a 17yr old car it's not been that expensive to run unless your unlucky and several things all come up at once or something major gives way. Again, getting things fixed at good Porsche specialists saves on OPC costs.
I would also argue that an S2 is cheaper to run than a Turbo. The extra TLC and associated cost you need to give to the cylinder head is all extra expense over that of a Turbo. The 8v turbo cylinder heads are much simpler, have fewer moving parts and are pretty robust and trouble free apart from the timing belt changes which you need to keep on top of. The turbochargers can be expensive to replace but are pretty reliable in the first place - good for at least £150k mls. Regarding fuel economy - I get a good 25 to 26mpg (maybe a couple more in summer) and it's pretty insensitive to the way I drive the car. Not bad considering a friend of mine can get 22ish mpg in his 225bhp TT when he's heavy footed - which is most of the time. And now i've got my oil leak fixed i'm not using any oil at all.
Anyway, so far so good and no regrets, but i've also got my fingers crossed!
Good luck with the car hunting.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Fen

...If you buy an S2 then expect to spend £2k on it to replace the cams right away unless it has receipts to show it has had some or the tensioner and chain have been checked by someone reputable recently. If you don't need to replace them when you get them checked then that's a bonus but don't assume it will be OK...

Are you sure that this is right? Ouch! I have recently bought my S2, with nearly 87k on the clock now. Do the cams need replacing due to age, or mileage? The belt were done about 3 years and ~10,000 miles ago. I have heard that belts should be done every four years irrespective of mileage - is this something that others can confirm/refute?

Interestingly, I spent £8k on my S2, so it should be a reasonably good example of the breed (even though I have had problems with n/s wiper, driver's side electric window mechanism, sunroof, boot release mechanism in the couple of months of ownership - perhaps my expectations were too high!). Previous to that I had a '98 R-reg BMW 323 saloon (straight six, 2.5l, 170 bhp). I was looking for something fun to replace it and looked at a whole host of things from Impreza's, Preludes to Fiat Coupes and including another 3-series, but as a coupe. My conclusions about the 944 are that it handles well, and goes well, compared to my previous 3-series. However, the gear change has taken a little getting used to, being nowhere near as slick as the BMW's. The engine note is nowhere near as pleasant - the BMW 6-cylinder engines are deservedly well-regarded. To my ear the four cylinder engine note is just a bit coarse. A 3-series coupe would be so much more practical as well, having rear seats that can accomodate fully grown adults, a bigger boot, and significantly better running costs/reliability. Interestingly a mate of mine has just bought a 328i Sport coupe, for which he paid about £8k as well, and it is on paper a better car. However, having said all that, 3-series are ten-a-penny and don't stand out in a crowd, and may even have negative connotations. The 944 looks absolutely miles better, is more individual and just as importantly IS A PORSCHE! I was ridiculously excited before getting my S2 - in anticipation of owning a truely great marque, an effect that I would not have experienced about anything else in this price bracket. The only other marque with the charisma to match a Porsche is a Ferrari, but a) there is no way I could afford one and b) whatever my complaints about reliability of my 944 almost any Ferrari would be so much worse!

Phew! Essay over!
Cheers,

Graham

 

[Guest]

Oh, and a 3-series would have air conditioning with climate control as standard, rather than it being an exception!

Is it possible to retro-fit air-con to an S2?

 

[Guest]

It must be possible, since Northway Porsche told me that the A/C in my S2 coupe is an aftermarket fit item! I think I heard someone else mention they had an aftermarket system too.

Tom

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: GCHinton
Do the cams need replacing due to age, or mileage? The belt were done about 3 years and ~10,000 miles ago. I have heard that belts should be done every four years irrespective of mileage -

Not necessarily. The cams are connected by a metal chain which in time stretches, unaddressed it will round off the teeth on the cam sprockets. This chain has never been part of the official servicing schedule. If your car was owned or serviced by someone unaware of this then it may be that it has never been replaced. I replace my chain (and the tensioner pad) every 50k miles at a cost of about £300 inc labour.

Fen has been unlucky in that both his S2's had rounded teeth and needed new cams (circa £2k) []

The belts are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. They have an official service life of 4 years or 48k miles whichever comes soonest, however most people change them every 3 years or 36k miles because £200 for new belts is much better than thousands for a new engine if they snap.

Bert Gear the 944 Tech Rep recommends every 2 years (and he sells then [])

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: TomW

It must be possible, since Northway Porsche told me that the A/C in my S2 coupe is an aftermarket fit item! I think I heard someone else mention they had an aftermarket system too.

Cool-It who advertsie in the club mag recently did a full install to a 968 (which is essentially the same system). Call the owner for a price and good advice.

 

[Fen]

The case hardening is failing on S2 cams through age - doesn't affect all cars but seems to have little to do with miles as I know of a 70k miler that needed replacements. Otherwise as Paul says neglect (and OPC servicing qualifies here in terms of cam chain) can lead to broken teeth. I have had one pair replaced for failing case hardening and one for broken teeth. I have a complete 944 Turbo a/c system sitting in my garage if anyone needs bits. Fitting retrospectively to an S2 would best be done by finding the bits from a car with OEM a/c and fitting them. i don;t know how much of my Turbo kit would fit but I'd do a straight swap of my working heater buttons with a/c for a working non a/c set from an S2. Scott - the 6k service is to replace the oil which gets a workout due to the hot turbo; it isn't something for low mileage users (who should have a 12k service every 12 months regardless of mileage covered). I have said before I really think you should reconsider the £50 or so you save by not changing the oil and filter at 6k as I strongly belive it's a false economy. My Turbos all used more fuel than my S2s (25 vs 27 mpg approx.) until I modified the Turbo with a MAF when it got much better. I guess the big Turbo and injectors are about to reverse that trend though [8|]

 

[Keggers]

Anybody know how much of a turbo a/c kit would fit an S2? I'd be tempted if it was largely the same!

 

[944Turbo]

ORIGINAL: Fen
My Turbos all used more fuel than my S2s (25 vs 27 mpg approx.) until I modified the Turbo with a MAF when it got much better. I guess the big Turbo and injectors are about to reverse that trend though [8|]

I seem to get better economy the more mods I do, I think I can't use full throttle for as long as licence losing territory arrives sooner and before when I would held a lower gear the next one up is adequate.
Tony

 

[Guest]

my turbo's been chipped to 300 bhp and with the aircon on it does abou 15-18mpg off it does abourt22 around town(rhondda valleys) on a run it's early thirties but i have got to get a new aircon motor the bracket has snapped my mate re-gasses them for 55 notes i can get a recon motor for about 70 quid apparently it a dog of a job

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

I seem to get better economy the more mods I do, I think I can't use full throttle for as long as licence losing territory arrives sooner and before when I would held a lower gear the next one up is adequate.
Tony

I'm not so sure about that. Part of the joy of performance mods is using them. I think there is perhaps more incentive to "give it some stick", just to check the mods are working, when one might otherwise pull away in a sedate manner. [8|]

 

[944Turbo]

Well yes and no, there are limits It is relatively rare I can drive over 100 and I get there quicker now, and usually maintian a higher gear as a drop down isn't required for the extra burst passing move. The performance has always been used since I owned the car, and it now does at least 360miles on 70litres where before it did 300ish. On two occasions I have been forced to drive off boost for a tank full due to split hoses and it then did well over 400miles but if I wanted to drive off boost i would of stuck with a lux or S2 []
Tony