Is this what the new Cayster will look like?
- Thread starter Scrounger
- Start date
Nothing very surprising there Dan … other than that it’s taken so long for Porsche to get their act together! Presumably there’s been a lot of work behind the scenes if they’re planning a MY2025 release (announcement in Q4 2024?) because unless they’ve been very well disguised, test mules have been conspicuous by their absence. That doesn’t leave a lot of development time for a brand new and rational design, although of course there’s now a lot of background knowledge with the Taycan and upcoming Macan BEV which the design and development teams can call upon. I can’t see that there will be much commonality between the basic structures of the three vehicles, although undoubtedly there’ll be a lot of crossover on the motors and control gear, etc. An important side issue is that of the 911 which, if still ICE powered, won’t be eligible for sale in the UK beyond 2030 unless it’s allowed a dispensation to run on some sort of environmentally friendly synthetic fuel. Yeah … how would that be policed? The 911 range is a big (and very profitable) range and a major earner for the Porsche dealerships so they’re not going to be happy and neither are their potential customers who are going to be limited to the Boxster and Cayman EVs if they want a Porsche sports car. Interesting times ahead! Jeff
Actually, the latter half of this article interesting raises some interesting points:
https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/2023-porsche-cayman-electric
Part of the hesitation in producing an electric Cayman stems from the declining appetite for traditional sports cars, contributing to the 718 twin’s minor share of 7.75 percent (11,922 units) of Porsche global sales in H1, 2021. Yet the upshot of EV performance models has clearly been demonstrated with Taycan, which chalked up 19,822 sales over the same period for a 12.9 percent slice of the Porsche pie, snapping at the heels of the 911.
The other challenge is achieving an acceptable range through battery technology and finding a way to package it within the 718’s architecture without a significant cost blowout. The volume simply isn’t there for the investment in a new platform, such as the stand-alone J1 underneath the Taycan. A fully electric Cayman would require significant investment in a heavily revised version of the MMB (Modular Mid-Engine) platform that the new 718 and existing 992 911 use, with a 911 hybrid recently seen testing ahead of its 2023 arrival.
The alternative may be a modified version of the VW Group’s PPE (Premium Platform Electric) which is used by the Macan EV while the rest of the Macan line-up uses the MLB (Modular Longitudinal Matrix) underpinnings. This could see Cayman follow the same strategy as Macan, with a Cayman EV upon PPE alongside hybrid/ICE versions that use the MMB platform, tapping into the hybrid 911’s components where possible to keep within 718’s price point and sate traditional buyers.
Keeping internal combustion of some sort would give Porsche an each-way bet and have little impact on the brand’s overall EV targets. These can easily be met with the electric Macan, due in 2022, and electrified Cayenne arriving in 2025. Together, the two SUVs make up the lion’s share (57 percent) of Porsche’s global volume.
Jeff
https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/2023-porsche-cayman-electric
Part of the hesitation in producing an electric Cayman stems from the declining appetite for traditional sports cars, contributing to the 718 twin’s minor share of 7.75 percent (11,922 units) of Porsche global sales in H1, 2021. Yet the upshot of EV performance models has clearly been demonstrated with Taycan, which chalked up 19,822 sales over the same period for a 12.9 percent slice of the Porsche pie, snapping at the heels of the 911.
The other challenge is achieving an acceptable range through battery technology and finding a way to package it within the 718’s architecture without a significant cost blowout. The volume simply isn’t there for the investment in a new platform, such as the stand-alone J1 underneath the Taycan. A fully electric Cayman would require significant investment in a heavily revised version of the MMB (Modular Mid-Engine) platform that the new 718 and existing 992 911 use, with a 911 hybrid recently seen testing ahead of its 2023 arrival.
The alternative may be a modified version of the VW Group’s PPE (Premium Platform Electric) which is used by the Macan EV while the rest of the Macan line-up uses the MLB (Modular Longitudinal Matrix) underpinnings. This could see Cayman follow the same strategy as Macan, with a Cayman EV upon PPE alongside hybrid/ICE versions that use the MMB platform, tapping into the hybrid 911’s components where possible to keep within 718’s price point and sate traditional buyers.
Keeping internal combustion of some sort would give Porsche an each-way bet and have little impact on the brand’s overall EV targets. These can easily be met with the electric Macan, due in 2022, and electrified Cayenne arriving in 2025. Together, the two SUVs make up the lion’s share (57 percent) of Porsche’s global volume.
Jeff
Interesting read Jeff. Maybe the Cayster EV is more difficult to bring to life than we all thought. If true, it's a bitter pill to swallow for the Porsche R&D team as there have been serious hints towards electrification of the 718, some coming from the big boss.
Interesting times ahead me thinks.
Dan
Interesting times ahead me thinks.
Dan
Interesting times indeed Dan. Of course it’s just press/online speculation, and who knows what Porsche are up to, but certainly it’s food for thought?
I was surprised by the 718’s relatively small share (7.75%) of Porsche global sales, which makes the EV decision more difficult. However, as I pointed out before, Porsche won’t be able to sell the extensive and very profitable 911 range in the UK beyond 2030 (and maybe elsewhere if circumstances change in the next 8-years?) so unless they’re happy to be just an SUV/GT supplier here they won’t have a proper sports car offering in what traditionally is an important market for them. Although the 718 platform is very long in the tooth, being a development of the 981, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it rumbling on for a short while if/when an EV replacement arrives, subject to emission conformity, in the same way that Porsche are planning to do with the Macan.
Incidentally I raised the issue of the next Cayman being an EV back in March 2019 [ https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1022093 ] and I’d feel more confident that it’s actually going ahead if we’d seen some test mules around, which to date have been conspicuous by their absence.
Jeff
I was surprised by the 718’s relatively small share (7.75%) of Porsche global sales, which makes the EV decision more difficult. However, as I pointed out before, Porsche won’t be able to sell the extensive and very profitable 911 range in the UK beyond 2030 (and maybe elsewhere if circumstances change in the next 8-years?) so unless they’re happy to be just an SUV/GT supplier here they won’t have a proper sports car offering in what traditionally is an important market for them. Although the 718 platform is very long in the tooth, being a development of the 981, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it rumbling on for a short while if/when an EV replacement arrives, subject to emission conformity, in the same way that Porsche are planning to do with the Macan.
Incidentally I raised the issue of the next Cayman being an EV back in March 2019 [ https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1022093 ] and I’d feel more confident that it’s actually going ahead if we’d seen some test mules around, which to date have been conspicuous by their absence.
Jeff
There was that one odd mule Jeff, a widebody Cayman? If you looked at the rear end of it, the exhaust tailpipes seemed to stick out from a chassis crossmember or similar! My view at the time was that it as an EV mule...
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/05/can-you-tell-what-this-weird-widebody-porsche-cayman-test-mule-is-all-about/
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/05/can-you-tell-what-this-weird-widebody-porsche-cayman-test-mule-is-all-about/
Well spotted Dave … I’d not come across that … and it wouldn’t be difficult to hide an EV powertrain in the 718 body.
At the end of the link I referenced above there’s mention of the 2017 E-volution:
Cayman E-volution showcased to promote swift 800-volt ‘Porsche Turbo Charging’, a JV between Porsche, Audi, BMW, Daimler and Ford. E-volution’s AWD and 38kWh lithium-ion battery pack saw 199km range with 0-100km/h in a Cayman S-beating 3.3sec.
So it’s clear that Porsche have previous experience electrifying the 718 Cayman pre-Taycan.
Jeff
At the end of the link I referenced above there’s mention of the 2017 E-volution:
Cayman E-volution showcased to promote swift 800-volt ‘Porsche Turbo Charging’, a JV between Porsche, Audi, BMW, Daimler and Ford. E-volution’s AWD and 38kWh lithium-ion battery pack saw 199km range with 0-100km/h in a Cayman S-beating 3.3sec.
So it’s clear that Porsche have previous experience electrifying the 718 Cayman pre-Taycan.
Jeff
AndrewCS
Active member
Liking the shape but unless it`s sub 1500kgs hard to see it replicating the current sportscar feel / appeal. With the RWD Taycan at 2025kgs a 1500kgs Cayman should be possible but at what cost ?
Given that the Extended Warranty scheme would take me reliably to 2030 I don`t see an EV charging up my driveway
Given that the Extended Warranty scheme would take me reliably to 2030 I don`t see an EV charging up my driveway
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I do not think that the struggle is with the engineering. I am sure that Porsche can produce an electric Cayman - after all Westfield can build an electric 356 replica. https://chesil.co.uk/ and plenty of others are doing something along the same lines.
I suspect that all this speculation and discussion is fuelled by the need to work out what sort of electric Cayman will actually sell - why people like us, and even more not like us, buy them. What makes a Cayman a Cayman? If you have to replace a central ingredient in a trusted recipe with something different, do you try to replicate the original or go down a different route and chase a different customer base? A bit like zero alcohol beer and wine.
My thoughts are to get the best Cayman you want to own now, and be prepared to hang onto it if something better does not materialise - which may well be the case depending on your criteria.
We've got used to only having two pedals. Can we get used to not having an ICE? Dunno, but there is still a lot of appeal in owning a high performance, smallish, low slung four wheeled vehicle, distinctively styled and with Porsche engineering and branding. It won't be the Cayman we know and love, but it could still be a lot of fun.
Should Porsche let the Cayman range die as and when the ICE is discontinued. Replace it with something else?
I suspect that all this speculation and discussion is fuelled by the need to work out what sort of electric Cayman will actually sell - why people like us, and even more not like us, buy them. What makes a Cayman a Cayman? If you have to replace a central ingredient in a trusted recipe with something different, do you try to replicate the original or go down a different route and chase a different customer base? A bit like zero alcohol beer and wine.
My thoughts are to get the best Cayman you want to own now, and be prepared to hang onto it if something better does not materialise - which may well be the case depending on your criteria.
We've got used to only having two pedals. Can we get used to not having an ICE? Dunno, but there is still a lot of appeal in owning a high performance, smallish, low slung four wheeled vehicle, distinctively styled and with Porsche engineering and branding. It won't be the Cayman we know and love, but it could still be a lot of fun.
Should Porsche let the Cayman range die as and when the ICE is discontinued. Replace it with something else?
Broadly I’m in agreement with John’s comments above. With the Taycan (and undoubtedly the upcoming Macan EV) Porsche has demonstrated its ability to design, engineer and develop excellent electric GT and SU vehicles, and with their Rimac partner’s input there’s no doubt that they’ll be able to produce an equally excellent sports car.
The Cayman’s long-term future could be viewed as a problem for Porsche given that, despite denials, they’re going to have to accept sooner rather than later that their beloved (and much more profitable) 911 range will have to be fully electric. If the Cayman EV is introduced in 2025 with potentially a 10-year lifespan a 911 EV range could then pick up on that beyond 2030 with the possibility of the Cayman being dropped, unless Porsche continue to choose to have 2-seater (Cayman) and 2+2 (911) sports car offerings at different price points and with significant commonality of electrical components at least, even if they have different upper body structures and suspension systems.
Jeff
The Cayman’s long-term future could be viewed as a problem for Porsche given that, despite denials, they’re going to have to accept sooner rather than later that their beloved (and much more profitable) 911 range will have to be fully electric. If the Cayman EV is introduced in 2025 with potentially a 10-year lifespan a 911 EV range could then pick up on that beyond 2030 with the possibility of the Cayman being dropped, unless Porsche continue to choose to have 2-seater (Cayman) and 2+2 (911) sports car offerings at different price points and with significant commonality of electrical components at least, even if they have different upper body structures and suspension systems.
Jeff
Brian_Innes
Member
I'm also in broad agreement with both John and Jeff.
Having recently sampled a brief test drive of the Taycan S courtesy of OPC Chester, I have no doubt the Cayman EV will follow a similar driving experience. The most significant thing that struck me about the Taycan was the sensation of weight. Whilst having no complaints regarding the straight line performance, "straight line" being the operative term here, the sheer mass of the thing left me cold. This was even more apparent in my case having just stepped out of my lightweight Alpine A110.
I think Porsche will have a problem deciding what to do with the Cayman platform when the 911 finally arrives in EV form. This is where I consider Jeff to be right. The Cayman will be dropped. Yet again, I fear the Cayman will suffer at the hands of the corporate suits in Stuttgart when the EV 911 comes along post 2030.
If you take away the dynamic advantages of a mid-engine ICE configuration, and substitute a platform rigged with batteries from stem to stern, the Cayman has lost its mojo in my opinion.
Like many readers on this forum, I am sticking with the petrol combustion engine for as long as I shall be driving a sports car coupe. The EV Cayman would simply end up just being another joyless electric skateboard.
We car and driving enthusiasts who have grown up with the evocative sounds of exhausts, rotating cams, reciprocating crankshafts and pistons, close-ratio gearboxes, limited-slip diffs et all, will never be happy with a eerie whining electronic soundtrack attached to a heavy, understeering chassis that the current EV platforms offer.
Stick with what we've got, is the recurring theme here. Long may it reign.
Brian
Having recently sampled a brief test drive of the Taycan S courtesy of OPC Chester, I have no doubt the Cayman EV will follow a similar driving experience. The most significant thing that struck me about the Taycan was the sensation of weight. Whilst having no complaints regarding the straight line performance, "straight line" being the operative term here, the sheer mass of the thing left me cold. This was even more apparent in my case having just stepped out of my lightweight Alpine A110.
I think Porsche will have a problem deciding what to do with the Cayman platform when the 911 finally arrives in EV form. This is where I consider Jeff to be right. The Cayman will be dropped. Yet again, I fear the Cayman will suffer at the hands of the corporate suits in Stuttgart when the EV 911 comes along post 2030.
If you take away the dynamic advantages of a mid-engine ICE configuration, and substitute a platform rigged with batteries from stem to stern, the Cayman has lost its mojo in my opinion.
Like many readers on this forum, I am sticking with the petrol combustion engine for as long as I shall be driving a sports car coupe. The EV Cayman would simply end up just being another joyless electric skateboard.
We car and driving enthusiasts who have grown up with the evocative sounds of exhausts, rotating cams, reciprocating crankshafts and pistons, close-ratio gearboxes, limited-slip diffs et all, will never be happy with a eerie whining electronic soundtrack attached to a heavy, understeering chassis that the current EV platforms offer.
Stick with what we've got, is the recurring theme here. Long may it reign.
Brian
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