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just drove a 964 RS...

M

Mario149

New member
I just got back from holiday in Italy where an old friend of mine has a 964 RS. i was fortunate enough to have a few rides in it, and due to the way insurance works over there (or at least his) whereby anyone can drive the car, he was even generous enough to let me drive it for a bit (v brave you'll understand given the average level of driving lunatic over there!). i have a 996 C4S over here so just thought i'd share a few thoughts i have comparing and contrasting them (i suspect a lot/all of this will be known to people here, but hey, it's my post so i can write what i like! :p)

1. the sound! i've driven my car, and also a 993 C4, and it sounds totally different from either! i think i finally 'get' the whole air-cooled thing :) very distinctive. not sure whether i prefer it to mine, but it's definitely v pleasurable to listen to, although it did sound rather mechanical at low revs...but i'm wondering if this is due to the lack of sound deadening

2. ride height/comfort/grip - it's v low to say the least! we were mainly on tight windy roads (that were slightly bumpy) and absolute grip did not seem particularly high, but the upside is that since it reached the limit sooner, it was almost more fun to drive. i'm pretty convinced that modern day porsches are almost a bit pointless on the road as by the time you do reach the limits, you're generally doing something rather illegal or stupid. the bucket seats were good, but i'm not sure whether they give that much more support over sports seats in the 996. overall comfort was on a par with a renaultsport 172 cup i used to have i.e. it can't be that good for your back on an average road! :p

3. performance - in a straight line, there doesn't seem to be much in it compared to my C4S, a least up to 80mph or so. i did a bit of investigation, and the power/weight ratios seem v similar (C4S is a bit chubby :p). and omg to you actually have to drive the thing. pedals seem offset, clutch it quite heavy, no power steering!

anyway, overall it was very enjoyable. as far as i know, there were only about 1500 or so made (is that right?), so i feel privileged to have driven one :)

oh, and while i'm here, a few questions/observations regarding servicing/faults....

my friend only covers about 2k miles a year in it (he doesn't live in italy), but hasn't had it serviced at all for nearly 3 years, strange given how protective he is of it!). i had a bit of a go at him saying it might have some serious adverse effects. can anyone add more detail to this (if i'm right)?

the steering around the straight ahead seemed a bit loose i.e. you had to give it a few degrees of turn before the car would turn, whereas mine is instant. could this be a wearing out of the steering rack or something?

the engine seems to take a loooong time to heat up, and oil pressure always seems quite high (mine, when warmed, hangs around 1.5 bar at idle, his about 3 if i recall. also, if he doesn't warm the car up properly, it cuts out sometimes when he stops at road tolls and take a few goes to start again.

anyway, thanks for reading this mind dump! if anyone is interested i can dig out a pic or it and post it :)


 
Glad you enjoyed the experience. A lot of what you say is just what we put up with as part of the pleasures of ownership. The steering seems a bit odd - mine is very direct on turn in.

I suspect that your friend's RS is completely standard, engine wise. Given a few tweeks the RS can be significantly faster, in gear, than the 996. Mine has a Cargraphic induction/hot film MAF with a cat by-pass and cup pipe (straight through pipes in place of the catalytic converter and main silencer) and puts out 294 BHP as opposed to the standard 260. When you hit 4,500 revs, all hell is let loose so to drive it hard, you have to keep it above this.

If you put the two cars on a smooth piece of tarmac such as a circuit, you wouldn't see the RS for dust - after all, that's what it was designed for.

Before you ask, I used to have a 996 (2003 2WD) and the reason I changed was because I found the 996 a pleasure, but quite boring to drive. Even with PSM turned off, it would cut in way before you want it to. The only driver aid the RS has is ABS.

I'm not decrying the 996, it just wasn't for me. If I had bought a GT3, I'm sure I would have been more than happy with it. The 964RS is both a driving and an owning experience which certainly isn't for everybody. Personally, I love my car and wouldn't dream of selling it unless I really had to find some money.

Lastly, I have 16 stamps in the service book and another will be added before the year is out even though I only do 3,000 miles a year in it.
 

ORIGINAL: Stewart H

Glad you enjoyed the experience. A lot of what you say is just what we put up with as part of the pleasures of ownership. The steering seems a bit odd - mine is very direct on turn in.

I suspect that your friend's RS is completely standard, engine wise. Given a few tweeks the RS can be significantly faster, in gear, than the 996. Mine has a Cargraphic induction/hot film MAF with a cat by-pass and cup pipe (straight through pipes in place of the catalytic converter and main silencer) and puts out 294 BHP as opposed to the standard 260. When you hit 4,500 revs, all hell is let loose so to drive it hard, you have to keep it above this.

If you put the two cars on a smooth piece of tarmac such as a circuit, you wouldn't see the RS for dust - after all, that's what it was designed for.

Before you ask, I used to have a 996 (2003 2WD) and the reason I changed was because I found the 996 a pleasure, but quite boring to drive. Even with PSM turned off, it would cut in way before you want it to. The only driver aid the RS has is ABS.

I'm not decrying the 996, it just wasn't for me. If I had bought a GT3, I'm sure I would have been more than happy with it. The 964RS is both a driving and an owning experience which certainly isn't for everybody. Personally, I love my car and wouldn't dream of selling it unless I really had to find some money.

Lastly, I have 16 stamps in the service book and another will be added before the year is out even though I only do 3,000 miles a year in it.
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yeah, i'm 90% sure his car is standard

reference the PSM cutting in even when off on your 996, are you sure? my experience is that when it's off, it's fully off on my C4S. i've had a couple of spins on the track and never saw the PSM light blink at me or anything, although to be honest i wasn't really looking at the dash when it was all happening!

would a (standard) RS actually be quicker around a track than a 996 over decade newer than it? does anyone have any direct comparisons? like i said before, the absolute levels of grip seemed a lot lower than on mine (smaller tyre area?) and on any significant straight i think the power advantage of the 996 would come into play (memories of overhauling caterhams/elises on straights on my last track day!). BUT, i would say it would def be more fun on a track than mine though!
 
I had a very mildly tweaked 964 RS - about 300 bhp and on cup tyres - and my neighbour had a 996 C4S. From a rolling start at pretty much any speed, the RS was faster in a straight line. On circuit, there was a noticeable difference, even when we swapped drivers so the RS was quicker although I suspect the tyres made a difference.

Servicing ... oil, filter and checkover will cost a couple of hundren pounds and must be worth it as a preventative measure if nothing else. I didn't do much mileage but always serviced it every 6 or 12 months. Given what the car is probably worth, I think its a no brainer.

Ride / comfort is pretty rubbish on the road but the steering was always very good - probably worth getting it checked out. Not a great road car, but as a track car, it was superb.
 

ORIGINAL: Yoda

I had a very mildly tweaked 964 RS - about 300 bhp and on cup tyres - and my neighbour had a 996 C4S. From a rolling start at pretty much any speed, the RS was faster in a straight line. On circuit, there was a noticeable difference, even when we swapped drivers so the RS was quicker although I suspect the tyres made a difference.

Servicing ... oil, filter and checkover will cost a couple of hundren pounds and must be worth it as a preventative measure if nothing else. I didn't do much mileage but always serviced it every 6 or 12 months. Given what the car is probably worth, I think its a no brainer.

Ride / comfort is pretty rubbish on the road but the steering was always very good - probably worth getting it checked out. Not a great road car, but as a track car, it was superb.
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'scuse my ignorance: cup tyres being road legal track day tyres in the vein of toyos etc?
 
I suspect that the steering feel was probably because you jumped from a power steered car to a non assisted one. The wheel will feel slightly dead in comparison. Be careful when comparing power/weight. Porsche tend to quote weights without the extra toys added. So a/c heated seats/ power seats etc all add FAT.
Road driving a 64 RS does not prepare you for what the car is like on track. Try getting a few pax laps at track with anyone on here and you'll see what i mean[;)]
 
i dont think you can compare,i have passed friends in 996 c4s,c2 etc..and that was in my e30 m3 both road tyre setup.

i think average driver will go quick in 996,where a 964 rs requires a bit of skill
 
2000 miles/year but no service? Thats not good. For one thing the oil needs changing. Even though its not being used, I think it will absorb moisture from the air, and doesnt it turn slightly acidic? Anyway, that and brake fluid every 2 years at least. Plus, if its not getting used, then little things like rubber seals dont get lubricated. So it will need regular checking. As stated abover, every year a brief service will cost a few hundred quid and buy peice of mind.

Like the comparison,..... on a bumpy road a 964RS wouldnt see where the newer car went, they are largely a track car. Learning to drive mine si the challenge. I drove a mates 996 c4 a couple of weeks ago, no problem easy to build up to, felt confident to go fast (ish), still darent do that in mine yet.
 
Do I have to really let you N-GT Jockeys know? The car is a bit of a handful on our roads as you know, totally different to those Carpet Cars, if you pushed the NGT on anything but baby bum smooth surface you could end up in a Badger Set backwards thru a hedge and even upside down when you a hit a freshly ploughed rut ....

It is a road legal racing car, keep it on the Track IT IS NOT A ROAD CAR!
 
ORIGINAL: mt0859

would a (standard) RS actually be quicker around a track than a 996 over decade newer than it? does anyone have any direct comparisons? like i said before, the absolute levels of grip seemed a lot lower than on mine (smaller tyre area?) and on any significant straight i think the power advantage of the 996 would come into play (memories of overhauling caterhams/elises on straights on my last track day!). BUT, i would say it would def be more fun on a track than mine though!
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Yes I believe the RS would be quicker than a 996 C2/C4 S. Best comparison I can give is Spa which should be in the higher powered cars favour. I was driving a 964 RS that was fairly standard and was dynod at around the 285bhp mark. The car I was chasing was a 996 GT3 Mk2 driven by my team mate that I race with. 964 was running Michelin Pilot SX and the 996 running Michelin Pilot Sports, both fairly standard road rubber for those cars, but with suspension geo set for track in both cases. Over the lap I could stay with the GT3, but the GT3's power was clearly evident on the kemel straight. The little 964 got it all back through the twistier bits. If this is possible against a GT3 then I don't think a heavier softer 996 will keep up. I think this is fairly representative having shared race Porsche's with the other driver and compared data logging between us.

My view on why this is possible is because the 964 RS is much closer to its Cup race car equivalent than the GT3 road car is to its Cup car equivalent, so its not strictly comparing correct model types between eras. To understand the generation gap performance increase jump straight to cup car comparisons. 964 Cup is slower than 993 Cup is slower than 996 Cup is slower than 997 Cup. Gotta love the 964 RS though. There is nothing more satisfying than passing brand new sports cars in a 17 year old well setup RS.
 
You must be a better driver than your team mate [;)]

ORIGINAL: RSR

Yes I believe the RS would be quicker than a 996 C2/C4 S. Best comparison I can give is Spa which should be in the higher powered cars favour. I was driving a 964 RS that was fairly standard and was dynod at around the 285bhp mark. The car I was chasing was a 996 GT3 Mk2 driven by my team mate that I race with. 964 was running Michelin Pilot SX and the 996 running Michelin Pilot Sports, both fairly standard road rubber for those cars, but with suspension geo set for track in both cases. Over the lap I could stay with the GT3, but the GT3's power was clearly evident on the kemel straight. The little 964 got it all back through the twistier bits. If this is possible against a GT3 then I don't think a heavier softer 996 will keep up. I think this is fairly representative having shared race Porsche's with the other driver and compared data logging between us.

My view on why this is possible is because the 964 RS is much closer to its Cup race car equivalent than the GT3 road car is to its Cup car equivalent, so its not strictly comparing correct model types between eras. To understand the generation gap performance increase jump straight to cup car comparisons. 964 Cup is slower than 993 Cup is slower than 996 Cup is slower than 997 Cup. Gotta love the 964 RS though. There is nothing more satisfying than passing brand new sports cars in a 17 year old well setup RS.
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At the RS track day at Oulton earlier this year ChrisW's 964 RS CS was comprehensively blowing off 996/997GT3's, GT3 RS's and GT2's...

...can't think who could have been driving it! [;)]
 


You must be a better driver than your team mate [;)]

I even heard the commentator once say when Paul switched with his Team Mate"

"And now the field will catch up as the slower driver is now in the car" I thought that was very unfair ..... anyway the car then broke down ....



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Anyway Tim I am trying to Guess who was peddling the Chris W N-gt FiA M003 964RS Carrera Clubsport .... Was that Sean Edwardes by any chance?


 
ORIGINAL: carreraboy

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Anyway Tim I am trying to Guess who was peddling the Chris W N-gt FiA M003 964RS Carrera Clubsport .... Was that Sean Edwardes by any chance?
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Great one, Des...
 
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