Keeping the motor warm:-}

[Guest]

My project for the coming months:
For some time I have been thinking about methods/ways of keeping the motor warm over winter.
After starting a discussion on Pelican; it would seem there are a couple of different heaters already available in the states.
So, I hear you say why?
Go to the following links and read on;

http://www.skylineaero.com/Engine%20preheater.htm

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/tbo.htm

The main benifits to summarise are;[]
Moisture will be reduced inside crankcase.
Oil will last longer.
Motor will achieve operating temp sooner.
Bearings, rings, etc, will last longer.
Less fatigue on crankcase, cylinders; from constant expansion/contraction due to normal use.
If the heating pad (or magnetic heater) can be obtained complete with built-in thermostat, and runs on 240 ac power, then all one would need to do is wire-up a plug. This could be to one side in the engine compartment. At the end of play, each day, park the 911 in it's shed, plug the ready power lead in and close the shed. []
Reading the above links, and the thread on Pelican:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1028713
It sounds fairly plausible?
Any one any ideas?
[&:]
Peter

 

[Guest]

For some time I have been thinking about methods/ways of keeping the motor warm over winter.

Drive it.

Or is that just too simple ?

 

[Guest]

Open both eyes; and turn the brain on.
Read the links.
Learn.
Capishe?

 

[Guest]

Open both eyes; and turn the brain on.
Read the links.
Learn.
Capishe?

Can't be bothered to read the links.

Can be bothered to wonder why you border on the offensive ?

 

[Guest]

Why bother?
Why get out of bed?
Why do anything?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz![]

 

[tim court]

Now now boys, put your handbags away.....

Peter915, a far cheaper method is to insulate your garage (if necessary), plug up the holes where draughts get in and use a small thermostatically controlled bar heater to keep the chill off. Reading at those jolly interesting links you are looking at using about 500watts.

Wouldn't want to pay your electric bill though. For integral garages consider extending your central heating and stick a small rad in there.

A slightly dearer method is to remove a section of your front wall and drive the car into your lounge. you can save money on sofa seating as you can sit in your car and watch TV etc.

 

[Guest]

Keep it on the level guys ..... valid question John ..... tongue in cheek reply Peter.......!

Stay friendly.

 

[Guest]

Staying friendly - difficult not to, as no one can see me standing in a corner, sulking and stamping my feet. And you can't type at the same time (who says that I can type, anyway ?).

 

[Guest]

Isn't it interesting the response I have had?
Compare this response to the response I got on Pelican? (see link- if you can be bothered)
Within a day of posting on Pelican, I had 4 or 5 different ideas, with guys making really positive suggestions.[]
The whole idea of the exercise was to enable an easy, cheap, quick method of pre-heating the motor, enabling easy start & quick warm-up. If running the tele is considered more vital, then it would be possible to switch the "heater" on 20 minutes before using the 911.
Here I was, (stupid me), thinking about ways and means of extending the life of the flat 6 ?!>[>:]
Still, ...

[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif"]Now, . where is that can of polish?
Peter

 

[tim court]

Sorry Peter915, my suggestion to insulate and heat your garage was serious..... and a lot less than $683.....

And if your gonna take umbrage and be rude to poor old John B then what do you expect???

By the way, I read the Pelican thread and you launched at the first guy who replied saying that a high tension cable laid outside was dangerous.... He wasn't taking the p, he was serious.

 

[Guest]

I felt there was a good sense of humour on the Pelican thread?
The response was/is vastly different to this forum.
Makes me think of "Bones" posting from the other day, about whats wrong with this forum?????
Where does the $683.00 come from?
Oh well.[]

 

[ClubSport 911]

Tim...

Wouldn't advocate the blocking of all those nice "anti-humidity" ventilation holes in the garage too actively !...also, Peter915, I know the issues you raise are real, and factual (e.g the value in hot oil for starting / wear etc) but there is an altogether nicer way.

I have seen the result of an engine - from new - that has had oil changed when recommended by the manufacturer, and run in a cycle that simulates "normal life " (?).

The same manufacturer then changed the oil every month - irrespective of mileage / temperature.

The difference was stunning. With the exception of minor wear on the very highest spot on the cam lobes, the 2nd engine showed and measured almost ZERO wear.

So, another idea is to change the oil much more frequently than you need. I doubt if you have owned your car from new, so who knows what wear has already taken place (and therefore what can be prevented by this or any other methodology) but it is an alternative to the oil heater.

Rgds

Steve

 

[tim court]

Where does the $683.00 come from

Hi Peter915,

It comes from the link you posted for a six cylinder aero engine plus sump heater.....

or is this one of those left handed web pages I wonder??? I don't really fancy Rodney sticking his preheater in my aircraft thankyou....

Now, if it were Jodie..........

 

[tim court]

There is a big difference between draught holes and ventilation holes.

Naturally, make sure you have trickle vents or similar if you are in the habit of putting your loved one away when wet (?).

Most moisture in the home is generated by us and our confounded modern domestic machinery.

 

[Guest]

Well at last there is some positive ideas.
Interesting comment Steve, but I don't think many of us can afford to change the oil every month?
It would seem there is a little confussion as to what I meant exactly;
The heater is meant primarly to warm the motor before use, not nessarcarly to keep the car warm all night. To facilitate this, it would be easy to have a timer plugged into a power socket, with the extension lead from this to the heater pad. For those of us who use our cars daily, this timer would be set an hour before you needed the car (or longer pending on heating cycle).
Of course, if the heater pad was small (wattage), then it could be left on all night, just as some battery conditioners are.
My earlier comments came about because I have become hesitant posting such ideas on this forum, yet I have no such doubts on such forums as Rennlist or Pelican. To further back this statement, I have had emails (direct) to me from guys in the states as a result of my threads on these forums. (with further comments & ideas)
It is a shame that this channel degenerates into discussion about who said what and why. Keep the ideas coming.
Step out side of the square.
Peter

 

[plhorner]

Peter,
I've been following this one for the last few days and mulling the subject over, I'm coming to the following conclusions:
1 Pre-heating the engine is to an extent a waste of time in our relatively temperate climate and is only necessary where night time temperatures turn the oil to a thick glupe and the coolant to soild ice (Alaska / Canada etc). Obviously, the latter is not a problem to us.
2 If your aim is to reduce the overall thermal cycling in the engine, you need to keep the engine hot (I wouldn't worry about this too much, the safety factory on these things are so high anyway - contact me off line about this one!!). To do this with electrical trace heater would be very expensive due to the heat output required. The majority of wear in the flat 6 is in the top end and is due to the combustion temperatures during warm up, the best we can do to minimise this is drive gently until the oil is warm (see point 4).
3 Internal condensation, yes I'm with you on this one. However, if you're driving it every day you shouldn't suffer too badly with this unless its mostly short journeys which should be avoided at all costs anyway. ( Iappreciate you have to do these ocasionally)
4 Oil heating, this is probably the way to go. Most wear occurs when the oil is cold rather than due to thermal cycling. A small trace heater mounted in the oil tank to pre heat the oil to 50 / 60 degrees C should go a long way to minimising the wear on start-up.

So, how about it Peter, we're both Design Engineers (I'm in the automotive industry) - you and me design a stainless oil tank for the 3.2 with a built in oil pre-heater and internal / external timer ?
Any takers??

(re: your last comment about off line e-mails. This is a discussion forum for all to be involved in, surely its best to keep it public and get a broader responce)

 

[Guest]

Phil,
Now your talking......... (thank fkuc, someone "here", gives a tihs)
Phil, I agree, the sump idea would be costly to heat.
My Original idea (on Pelican) was to just heat the oil tank, using a fish tank type heater. But I have had a guy from the states (email), and he's a pilot, and he has used the stick on heater on his Cessna type plane. The pad could simply be stuck on the oil tank. It comes with its own thermostat.
The magnetic one could also be handy, as this could easily be removed. ( preventing damage to the heater unit- rocks and stuff)?
I did wonder about the oil tank; replacing it with a custom unit.
Since yesterday, I have been intouch with 2 UK companys who make this sort of gear.
One has replied today.
Attached docs are from Peregrine, incl. cost.
see next posts

 

[Guest]

quote - save to your hard drive first, then click on open.

 

[Guest]

Heater

 

[Guest]

IMI save it to your hard drive first, then click open.