KW3 Suspension

[F355GTS]

Keeping you busy with all my questions []

Car is 93 968 CS 72k miles, std dampers/ springs, MO30 Rollbars

I think the rear dampers are pretty much shot so possibly time for a new setup, however can I ask anybody that has the KW3 how the ride is on the roads?, while my car will predominately be for trackdays I will be doing a reasonable number of road miles and the current setup seems pretty stiff already


thanks

 

[PJS917]

KW's are very good on the road, the fronts are very easy and quick to set on the softer setting, the rears not so. I run KW's on my S2 and the ride is more than acceptable on the road, in fact I think it is better than my MO30 equipped 968 that I use only on the road.

As a compromise KW's are excellent, if you want your car more track focused there are a
few more options available too you, but they will compromise the road ride more.

 

[Paz]

Ride quality and handling are sublime on KW v3's, I run the KW uniball top mounts too. In the past ten months I've done 12K on the road and six trackdays, it's a great kit but be wary of warranty claims should the need arise - KW's response in such situations leaves a lot to be desired . . .

If you're anywhere near the midlands you're more than welcome to take a look at the setup, have a ride etc.

As PJS says, there are other kits that are more biased towards either road or track but the KW v3 kit is a great all-round setup.

 

[F355GTS]

I had a chat with Ninex in Maidenhead and he said the KW's were good but because the rears are fitted inverted it's not possible to carry out one of the adjustments could not be done without removal of the damper? not sure if it's damping or rebound, is this correct?


ta

 

[F355GTS]

And now I'm a bit more confused, Promax suggest on their site that the Torsion bars should be adjusted/ reset, Ninex said they needed to be adjusted depending on required ride height, but Northway now tell me you have one or the other, coilovers or torsion bars not both

 

[lali]

welcome to the world of 968 suspension mods!!

I would think that any coilover kits would result in you needing to have the torsion bars adjusted. If for no other reason then to carry out a correct geo set up.

Anyone who tells you to junk the torsion bar in favour of coilover alones is not worth listening to.. I know of a couple of 968 owners that have gone don this route with some VERY expensive coilover kits only to come back to torsion bar + coilover set up because the car was near impossible to get set up right.

From what I remeber the KW's adjust for rebound on the top so thats the adjustment you cant do with it in place.

Other options are GAZ units.. a shed load cheaper then the KW's
I currently run the GAZ remote set on the 968 and the single adjustables on the 924/68, if you need to drive any more than just to and from the track then I'd steer well clear of the remote kit however the single adjustable kit is more than capeable on track and comfortabel on road.

JRZ do a kit wich is failry pricey from what I remember... there is also the options of some new Koni's and Bilsteins.

 

[chfs911]

There is nothing wrong with a new set of Koni M030s. Not sure on new price.

You will need to adjust the torsion bars which takes around 5 hours if you're learning! KWs are marginally better on track but setup is more important.

Chip, big brakes(custom top hats), big discs, roll cage, bias valve, M030 spindles and strut brace will to come next from memory.

And don't add it all up! ;O) It does make a huge difference on track and well worth it.

 

[plenty]

I actually managed to fit the KWs without reindexing the torsion bars. My rear was sagging on the original gear and putting the car on the lowest eccentric setting gives me a rear ride height of 315mm compared with a KW specified minimum of 310mm.

 

[lali]

chip??? PAH!

chips are for pussys!!!

 

[frogisland]

...Bilsteins....

Get yourself to Silverstone on the 30th...1xGaz, 1xBilstein...with lots of special bushing...sticky tyres....

JP

 

[MarkK]

M030 for period originality but choppy ride on stiffer settings on the road,KW V3 for great road manners on bumps and occasional track use,GAZ with remote resevoirs for out and out track use with no compromise,i have one of each settup on 3 different 951s.

 

[Big Dave]

Another vote for the KW kit.
I had it fitted to my 944 S2 + then the 968, did lots of t days + road miles on it...
Yes it is a pain not being able to adjust the rear rebound, [ top of rear shock], as its tucked out of the way.
In fact the rear rebound is one of the more critical adjustments, I found so anyway.
In fact this was one of the main reasons i went for the GAZ remote kit , BUT this kit is NOT for road use . Its too harsh for everyday use...

The torsions WILL need re-indexing whatever coilover kit you fit....
There is a lot of "talk" about this re-indexing.
Some say it needs it, some not.
As far as im concerened it DOES...
If not, the car cant be set up correctly, and i personally dont think itl handle properly...

JRZ kit,,, flippin heck. £££££££££££££££££££££££££££ If you need to ask you cant afford...[8|][8|][8|]
Koni "M030", old technology. + a choppy ride.
Koni "race" kit. again £££££££££££
Bilstein, [Escort CUP],VERY good kit, but NO adjustment, although this can sometimes be a positive...
Not had much dealings with any other kit...

Sounds like the "modding upgrading" bug has caught you...[][][][]
Be prepared for a lot of fettling + ££££££££££££££.
BUT most of all, enjoy the car....[][][][][]

 

[F355GTS]

Thanks Dave, I come from a Caterham background where it's a known disease 'upgraditus' [] I'm hoping I can control myself a bit this time round to avoid the silly power, slicks world I used to live in []

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave
The torsions WILL need re-indexing whatever coilover kit you fit....
There is a lot of "talk" about this re-indexing.
Some say it needs it, some not.
As far as im concerened it DOES...
If not, the car cant be set up correctly, and i personally dont think itl handle properly...

I didn't re-index my torsion bars, had the geo set up by Chris Franklin and he was happy with handling of the car afterwards.

 

[Big Dave]

Theres always one....[][][][8|][8|][8|].
Actually pauly. it mightve been because your "rear end sag" was caused by worn out torsions...
I have heard this to happen. in a few cases...
If the shocks go, the rear end doesnt usualy sag, as its held up by the "spring,s" / torsions.
If they wear out, then you get sag...

Mark.
In your "folder of reciepts" im sure youl have one, when was the last time the car had any suspension bush replacement.??
Its suprising how these can affect the cars handling + general feel..
After all they are getting on for 15ish years old now...
Glad to see its already got M030 arb,s, at least thatl be one item that wont need spending on, as they are about as good as you can get....

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave

Theres always one....[][][][8|][8|][8|].
Actually pauly. it mightve been because your "rear end sag" was caused by worn out torsions...
I have heard this to happen. in a few cases...
If the shocks go, the rear end doesnt usualy sag, as its held up by the "spring,s" / torsions.
If they wear out, then you get sag...

Maybe but how much "sag" equals worn out and how much does it affect the TB spring rate ?, I would hope adding the coilovers compensates enough for road use.

 

[Hilux]

If you are fitting KW then add in Weltmeister ARB`s for sublime handling with far less roll. The original Mo30 ARB`s are too soft.

 

[sawood12]

For a setup where you want a firm ride that wont shatter your teeth on the street KW's are unsurpassed. They are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. The build quality and materials used are top notch. For a track dedicated car then you may not necessarily detect a huge benefit over other single damping rate coil-overs, but they come into their own when on the bumpy and potholed roads of the UK.

When I was picking mine up from Promax there was a 993 in there where the guy was having some tweaks to his KW set up after removing the Bilstein setup after a few months because it was too stiff. The ride quality on KW's was far far superior and the KW's had a stiffer spring rate.

If your budget stretches and you want a good setup for road and track with no compromises then go for the KW. You wont regret it. I had the Weltmiester bars on my shopping list too, but the body control with the KW's was superb so didn't think they were necessary, certainly for the road - i'm not a fan of super stiff ARB's.

You may get away with installing without re-indexing - depends on how much your suspension has sagged and how low you want to go. I had M030 torsion bars installed at the same time so reindexing was done automatically.

KWv3's are designed for use with TB's - don't let anyone tell you different.

It was by far the best mod I ever did to my 944. It really updated and modernised the feel of the handling and ride. The biggest differences I noticed was flat cornering and superb body roll control, improved traction especially when accelerating out of bends and roundabouts (I struck the LSD off the wish list once i'd fitted the KW's. I very rarely lost traction on the inside wheel after the install, even when on boost and in the wet), and almost no dive and lurching about under braking and accelerating.

If I ever get another 944 or other Porsche again it is the first and possibly only mod i'd do.

 

[Big Dave]

ORIGINAL: Hilux

If you are fitting KW then add in Weltmeister ARB`s for sublime handling with far less roll. The original Mo30 ARB`s are too soft.

Paul.
In my opinion, the Welts are too messy, they are adjustable, but why would you want to add another adjustment. They are also more £££££££...
The KW,s are fine as they are combined with the M030 bars. BUT if you find the car is rolling more than you want, just increase the KW spring rate. Thats what i did + it worked great. Just added more harshness though, as i suspect the Welts do.???
I think, the original poster is after a good alround road - track car. By fitting extra stiff bits it becomes a track only car....

 

[Hilux]

In my opinion, the Welts are too messy, they are adjustable, but why would you want to add another adjustment.

Fit and forget in my book, once set why play with anything? The adjustability is there so as to help dial out under or oversteer dependent upon current settings, once done leave it alone. Same with suspension in most instances.

They are also strongly supported in the front and dont need bracing like the Mo30.

In my experience I had even tyre temps and wear with no outside edge feathering as they really kept the car planted. You have to try it to experience it. I did with Fens car which is why I went down that route straight away.

Also why spend lots on great aftermarket suspension and leave soft road ARB`s on the car. The car will be well damped and sprung but will still roll like a boat. Suspension should be considered as a package, not individual tweaks.

Edited to add: Its not a hard system at all, its a fantastic compromise - unsurpassed in my book and road settings with reasonable camber are superb on track. The reason its not well considered by more people is the expense. If all could afford it they would definitely go for it.

The relatively stiff settings are not an issue on the road du to the bypass valve system. You can crash over uneven, poor surfaces and surprise speed bumps etc and not upset the `firm` handling. Other systems will unsettle the car or damage the valveing.

I`m putting them on my Golf soon.