Lightweighting 993 for the track

[jmspear]

Interested in Leesweeney's post re car for the track. I already have (for me) the ideal car for the track, my 993 c2 with modded suspension, brakes, billet heads etc.

However, i also use the car for the road so don't want it to be completely uncomfortable / unusable for the occassional blast into the Office or the trip to tracks which are a long way away.

So the next step has to be lightweighting. I already have LWF, no aircon - didn't come with aircon, lightweight exhaust - full cargraphic system, lightweight Recaro SPG seats, 996 five spoke lightweight 18" wheels, what else would anyone suggest, don't really want tp spend £1,000's more on the car, as it has already cost me more than an RS, and no I am not about to trade to an RS !

Any ideas / suggestions?

Cheers

John

 

[burrow01]

Assume you have already deleted the rear seats?

Aluminium bonnet?

Lighter battery

RS Washer bottle (1 ltr?)

Replace the bonnet gas struts with a single stay

Anyone fitted ceramic brakes to a 993, must be some around that have been rejected by GT3 drivers []

Basically I think you need to look at an RS for hints, they have a lot of stuff removed from the interior:

No airbags
No Electric windows ?
Remove the radio (listen to that engine) and speakers, cassette box etc
Lighter carpets

Depends how far towards the track you want to go really []

Sounds fun - get it weighed beforehand, I'm sure we would be interested to see the numbers before and after

Pete

Pete

 

[mike cooper]

If your a fat bastard like me you could always go on a diet

Mike Cooper

 

[burrow01]

Just done that - 15Kg lighter - saved me removing a seat []

Pete

 

[mike cooper]

Hi Pete

On a serious note, the weight of the driver is very often overlooked yet can play a significant part. Even if one doesn't carry excessive weight but you have the build of a second row forward and the next guy is a Frankie Detori lookalike you may have as much as 60 to 70 Kgs weight difference.

Regards

Mike

 

[Pickled Piper]

Smaller battery has got to be a good one and also rear wiper delete.

pp

 

[burrow01]

I would agree, it does make me smile sometimes when you see car owners who have spent a fortune on Carbon Fibre bits and bobs etc, and are obsessive about the weight of the car, but can then hardly fit into their lightweight seats []

At Le Mans we were watching the Seikel GT3 team go through driver changing practice, and we accurately determined which were the two "real" racing drivers, and who was the "gentleman driver" who was funding the team...

I should point out that I myself am on the higher end of the Body Mass Index.......[]

Pete

 

[burrow01]

One other possibility

Replace the spare wheel with an aerosol (although I think the 993 spare wheel is part of the crash structure.?)

Pete

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

Playing devil's advocate a little, is a further reduction in weight really worth the time and money? Taking your car as an example John, it's about the specification now that I'm seeking to achieve. I'm also presuming there's no rear seat, speakers or window wiper. I'd hope that sort of specification would allow for a really fast and responsive 993, which I understand yours is.

Going the whole hog, does the fitment of an RS washer bottle, aluminium bonnet, etc, really make that much difference? I know the scales would give you the paper answer, but in the real world would the difference be noticed either on road or track and would it truly reflect the cost of the exercise? I'd think going further than your current specification would only give a very marginal result, if any at all, but then I will bow down to greater knowledge........[]

Regards

 

[38F3E1]

One of the biggest gains is removing all the sound proofing foam and carpets and replacing with a lightweight carpet set. Its very messy to do because of all the glue and the cabin is somewhat noisier afterwards.

Go and have a look on rennlist. Weight reduction comes up regularly and if you spend time searching you can pretty much find the weight of everything on a 993. There are lots of members over there that have started on this path.

Ian.

 

[38F3E1]

Agree it's a question of how far and how much money one is prepared to spend going down this route.

 

[jmspear]

Thanks for thoughts so far.

Oliver, good point, however changing the seats made a really noticable difference on the track as does adding a passenger (going the wrong way in terms of weight) so i figure more weight out will make a big difference.

She weighted 1290 (without me in the drivers seat) when we weighed her for the Total 911 article the other day (billet head article) and that is with rear seats, full leather interior, sound package (ten speaker system), full size battery, etc etc.

So she is not massively heavy at the moment.

By contrast Colin's stripped out race 993RSR weighed 1190 and he has replaced many body panels with lightweight parts etc.

I will have a look on rennlist.

Cheers

John

 

[burrow01]

ORIGINAL: jmspear

Thanks for thoughts so far.

Oliver, good point, however changing the seats made a really noticable difference on the track as does adding a passenger (going the wrong way in terms of weight) so i figure more weight out will make a big difference.

She weighted 1290 (without me in the drivers seat) when we weighed her for the Total 911 article the other day (billet head article) and that is with rear seats, full leather interior, sound package (ten speaker system), full size battery, etc etc.

So she is not massively heavy at the moment.

By contrast Colin's stripped out race 993RSR weighed 1190 and he has replaced many body panels with lightweight parts etc.

I will have a look on rennlist.

Cheers

John

You also have to take into account the fact that Colin's car has the weight of a roll cage to offset some of the weight saving measures - would you be adding one also (or have you got one already - I cannot remember from the article)

Pete

 

[pilotpaul]

Hi John,

I solved my 'weight problems' by buying a 993rs [] After only 6 days of ownership, I'm still getting my head around this 'lightweight' business [&:]

The difference between my previous car (993 Targa) and the 993rs is staggering. You can really feel the lack of weight in the car when pushing it along decent A roads and the Motorway. Mine has electric windows, a top-tint windscreen and a bit of extra carpet as options but nothing else - no air-con, electric mirrors, bu**er all soundproofing etc...

I wonder how much the 1/2 cage weighs.....[8|]

PP
[8D]

 

[DESMO16]

Just for reference my RS weighed in at 1260kgs, including 1/2tank of fuel, small extinguisher,and 1/2 Matter roll Cage.

 

[Sundeep]

an interesting post John

I would agree with what Oliver had said, if you're pretty much there with weight the extra may not be worth the cost / hassle....

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

Thanks John. Now I know where the next month's food budget is going[][][] I've just got a set of four points and had been toying with the idea of a seat change. You've just made up my mind!

Interesting point about the weight of your car. If memory serves, that's slightly less than a GT3 isn't it? No wonder your car creates interest on track!!

Regards

 

[38F3E1]

The original 1994 993 Carrera Cup cars were 1100 kg dry. Standard 993 Carrera is 1370 kg dry (or more depending on options) ... seriously overweight for a track car.

Ian.

 

[jmspear]

No cage (and no plans to put one in) and I didn't have much fuel in when weighted about 15 - 20% full on the guage.

Thanks John for your weight, seems I am not far off RS weight so maybe a few tweaks to enhance weight reduction:

Remove front h/light washers
RS washer bottle
Lightweight battery
RS door cards
Replace electric window winders with hand winders - any ideas on the feasibility of this, how easy, parts source etc
Remove amp and 10 speakers and replace with lightweight quality speakers in front RS door cards
Rear seat delete

The sunroof stays, as does the soundproofing and the stereo and the spare wheel.

Have also thought about different panels (glass fibre) - front wings, bonnet, doors and rear engine cover, anyone any experience of these, I am sure this would kill my (non existant) budget

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

John

As I said before, you've just created to do list for me!

Regarding lightweight panels, I've experience of fitting them to an earlier series 911. To be honest I wouldn't dream of fitting them to my 993 because they look, to me at least, out of place. On a racecar that's going to get a few scratches and knocks they'd be fantastic, but IMHO you'd never have the quality of fit and finish that you currently have with your 993.

Just my personal opinion developed, as I said, from experience on an early car. Perhaps someone else will have a view........

Regards