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Living with KW - 1 month on....

sawood12

New member
Well it's actually three weeks on but I rounded up!. Well there seems to be quite alot of interest about KW in the worldwide 944 community so I thought i'd provide a bit of an update now i've been driving the car for a few weeks now.

First of all the car feels like a completely different car since i've had it fitted so i've been pretty conservative while i've got used to it again. The ride is definately significantly more firm, but i'm not sure what settings Promax have set my shock absorber settings to but to be honest I do quite like the firmer ride, although I do find myself navigating around potholes a bit more than I used to. But despite the firmer ride I think the ride quality is improved, which sounds contradictory but although I'm feeling every blemish on the road surface there is no shocks sent crashing through the chassis like there was before so the car rides over the bumps robustly. I hope you all get what i'm trying to say here!

In terms of the handling, well all I can say is unbelievable. The car just feels so so much more composed and grippy than it did before it is definately much more competant than my driving skills! As an example there is a bend off a dual carridgeway slip road that is one of those nice constant radius bends that is a little more than 90 degrees. Pre-KW I could take the bend at 70mph maybe a bit more (80 if I use both lanes and take the racing line) and the car always felt well balanced and composed once you had allowed the body roll to settle. However the surface is slighly off camber and the tarmac is old with a few minor surface pockmarks so the car felt a little 'skittish' at these speeds and it sort of 4-wheel drifted slightly as the car rode over the peaks of the pockmarks. Now when I take this bend at the same speed the car just feels planted with no bodyroll and feels as if it could take another 10mph at least although I will never test this theory!

The car also feels as if it has much more drive. In a straight line there is much much reduced squat under acellaration so it feels as if the rear wheels dig in under boost and it's as if you can almost feel the rubber yeilding under accelaration as the torque tries to tear it off the tarmac. When accelarating in a turn e.g. when accellarating out of a junction or a small roundabout, again the car feels like it is digging in and there is so much more grip. I suppose this is because the inside wheel is no unloading as much as it did before due to the reduced body roll and despite my lack of LSD I feel that I can give the car so much more without the inside wheel breaking free.

Well as I expected my braking performance has improved to no end. I installed my Big Blacks last year and have been slightly underwhelmed by them, not really noticing a vast improvement in braking performance and not being able to get the ABS to cut in on track days. I put this down to my soft shocks at the front and it seems I was spot on. As there is much less dive under heavy braking it is the same story as what i've described about how the car feels under accellaration but in reverse. It feels as if the front tyres are digging into the tarmac and trying to tear its surface as if you are skidding on a carpet on a polished wood floor and it is ruffling up, and now in the dry on a new tarmac surface I can get the ABS to kick in at will. I also think i'll need to replace the rear bias valve as the rear does seem to want to lock up easily with the increased braking upfront. Just goes to show how important good shock absorbers are upfront in terms of braking. It is a point of safety.

Anyway sorry for the long thread and I hope some of you at least found it informative and interesting. Of course i've cannot directly compare to other aftermarket systems, fresh M030 or even a fresh standard system but i'm pretty confident that it would stand up pretty well against all these other options.

EDIT:-
Just thought i'd list all the things I had installed at the same time as the KW:-
M030 Torsion Bars, Racers Edge camber plates, new front ARB bushes (standard), Rennbay geometry correcting control arm ball joint kit with Phospher Bronze cup bearings instead of the polymer ones.
 
Good read Scott. I knew you'd love them! Much of what you have written is the same as I felt with mine and it will definitely see your track times come down by a few seconds. Great to hear that you're happy. I just keep telling people about this great system of KW and more and more people are getting the same results as we have had. In fact there's a thread on Rennlist a.t.m. asking where they can get them in the US. I guess until you've tried them you can't imagine how much better the car will handle.
 
Was really interested to read this Scott and very encouraged by your thoughts as its something I am thinking about getting done...along with couple of other things too.
 
Thanks for the update Scott, I had been wondering how you were getting along. Next time we meet I simply have to have a passenger ride - please [:)]
 
Hi Scott

I agree with all of the above, absolutely transforms the car. Get saving for the WM ARB`s and then it corners flat too [;)]

I have the `skittish` feeling on hi speed a road/dual carriageway bends and it is clear that it needs a softer setting for road, will be discussing with Andy and Roger when I get mine checked out and reset soon. BTW what camber are you running?
 
Paul H: I think i'm running about a degree of camber (can't remember exactly will have to check my print-out). Unfortunately my camber adjustable top mounts are virtually redundant as the toe settings move too much by adjusting the camber - over 2 degrees, which will destroy my tyres in the first few laps on track so i'll have to ditch my plans of tipping in the camber a couple of degrees for trackdays. Althought the lack of rubber in them means that turn in is razor sharp!

Paul S: you are welcome to have a spin in the car although you'll have to burn your cars soundtrack onto MP3 for me to make it sound anywhere near as exciting as yours! By the way Paul seeing though we touched on it in your thread on your black track wheels the other week, i've just fitted 7mm spacers with my Boxster twists up front as Promax commented that the offset discrepancy will effect handling (front track too narrow). I think 7mm means my wheels are around 3mm too far outboard but I struggled to find anywhere that sold 5mm or thinner shims. Anyway my first impressions are that the turn in and mid-turn resistance to understeer is improved.
 
Modern dampers such as KW's blow away all the obsolete kits available from Koni or Bilstein. I haven't tried the KW but I believe they may well be nearly as good as the much more expensive Motons, JRZ, Öhlins, etc [:)]

I'd be curious to know how yours were set though. The 3 way Motons on mine feel very similar to what you describe and they are set with the rebound one click away from full soft and the two compression settings on "medium".
 
Mine has 1.5 front, 1 rear and the tyre wear is completely even (including on track) attributable (I believe) to the beefier Weltmeister ARB`s which is why I went down that route.

Fen IIRC used to run nearly 3 [:eek:] without issue with the same KW/WM set up.

I`m glad its all ok Scott and have to say to anyone that it is really worth the extra money however if you stay Mo30 then invest in a better pair of ARB`s.


I`ve got some serious exams soon so studying a lot but will have to get out and about and see you all. Is there a rolling road day this year? I`m at the Silverstone testing on Thursday?

[:)]
 
How much should I be paying for those then? And is it an easy job to swop suspension on a 944 (done it on a Mk2 Golf before)
 
Paul, i've still not checked my 4-wheel alighnment since your last note. All the paperwork is still in the glove box. I've not brought it into the house yet in case the wife finds it and spies the invoice!!! Andy at Promax commented that the main difference he's noticed between M030 (specifically lowered M030) and KW is that the KW gives you so much more body control and rides rough road surfaces much better. He reckons lowered M030 feels spongy in comparison. To be honest i've not noticed any significant bodyroll with my standard ARB's yet, even when pushing round roundabouts. I wont be able to evaluate this until I get her back on a track - hopefully sometime in July/Aug after holidays, work trips, new kitchens etc. Good luck with the exams! What are you studying?

Chris - unfotunately the KW option is not cheap. The kit itself is cira £1400 then you are looking at around 10Mh labour (plus the obligatory bits and bobs that will inevatibly need replacing while you're in there) to install as the rear axel needs dropping to re-index the torsion bars to adjust the ride height. If it wasn't for the torsion bars then it would be an easy swap. Then you have the whole dilemma about what to do with your front lower control arm bushes that don't like lowered suspension and in some cases it has lead to failures of the lower control arms. I had a geometry correction kit installed at the same time ($125 for the kit and £150 to fit) so you are talking a significant upgrade - but at least the significant cost of the upgrade is matched by the significant improvement. However if you can justify it then it is possibly the best possible system for the car short of a full race setup which would probably be awful on the road.

The way I justify the spend is that if I add up all my spend to date on the car including the purchase price (excluding routine maintenance and reasonable repairs) i've still spent a good few grand less on the 944 than I would have on the modern hot hatch I probably would have got instead (Leon Cupra R), which would have depreciated horridly over the past three years, that i'd be scared of taking on track for fear of breaking it and chewing up a pair of tyres everytime (my tyres are 3yrs, 15kmiles and 3 trackdays old and still have plenty of tread on them). Though like i've hinted, the wife wont see it the same way!!

 
Hi Scott,

Great writeup.

I see you're using the Racer's Edge Camber Plates. Did they have to be modified in anyway to work the KW struts? The reason I ask is that a lot if US kit works with 2.25" or 2.5" diameter springs, whereas the KW springs are 60-mm (if I recall correctly).

Karl.

PS - Post photos showing the new ride height....
 
Hi Scott

I`m a Project Manager in London and an Associate of the Chartered Institute of Building (ACIOB) and you have to become a full member (MCIOB) within a certain period.

With a shortage anyway and 2012 sucking the industry dry of Project Managers in a year or so in theory it should add serious ££££`s to my annual worth. (thats the theory anyway) Its a degree equivalent course which I`m doing (will have done) in only 6 mths hence the studying etc.

**********************************

Re the KW.............Mo30 aint all you think it is. I hated it. Its just a slightly harder road setting over standard. My son has fitted decent adjustable suspension (cant remember the name) to his Golf and it corners fantastically well.

I`ve had westy`s and Ginettas on Koni and would highly recommend AVO, its miles better on kit cars.

Kw is transferrable and doesnt rust so LONG term is cheap IMO
 
Karl, To my knowledge no modification was required to the Racers Edge camber plates. I'm assuming from your question that in some applications the outside diameter of the spring is greader than the diamer of the recess in the camber plates? The KW's come with a sort of top plate already fitted so there was no need to use the camber plates directly onto the top of the springs. Also the outside diameter of the KW springs is quite a bit smaller than the diameter of the recess in the camber plates. The beauty of the Racers Edge plates is that they are designed to fit with standard springs without changing the ride height whereas some plates on the market that are flat without a recess mean you have to lower the suspension substantially to maintain std ride height then lower further to hit your lower position ad in some cases there isn't enough adjustment range on the strut. I'll post a photo showing before and after photos to show the ride height change - I just need to take the 'after' photo!!

Paul - good luck with the exams.
 
Thanks for that Paul. More confirmation that 944 ownership ain't cheap!

[:D] PS good luck with the wife!

''
 
ORIGINAL: Hilux

Hi Scott

I`m a Project Manager in London and an Associate of the Chartered Institute of Building (ACIOB) and you have to become a full member (MCIOB) within a certain period.

With a shortage anyway and 2012 sucking the industry dry of Project Managers in a year or so in theory it should add serious ££££`s to my annual worth. (thats the theory anyway) Its a degree equivalent course which I`m doing (will have done) in only 6 mths hence the studying etc.

**********************************

Re the KW.............Mo30 aint all you think it is. I hated it. Its just a slightly harder road setting over standard. My son has fitted decent adjustable suspension (cant remember the name) to his Golf and it corners fantastically well.

I`ve had westy`s and Ginettas on Koni and would highly recommend AVO, its miles better on kit cars.

Kw is transferrable and doesnt rust so LONG term is cheap IMO
In fact I found the Mo30's to ride harder on the street than the KW's but also suffer from much more bounce or bump steer unsettlement.
Oh, and best of luck with the exams too!
 
In fact I found the Mo30's to ride harder on the street than the KW's but also suffer from much more bounce or bump steer unsettlement.
Oh, and best of luck with the exams too!

Thanks for all the support chaps [:)] I`m studying now as it happens then an e-mail or two pop up so I have to look and answer now and again[;)]
 
I have the KW on my 968 and I just took out my little used Racers Edge Camber plates which are now for sale in the spares section. The KW kit is very good and is the best all round setup for track and road. As my car is mainly road based I removed the racers edge mounts as they were a little stiff for my liking on the street and I wont be going to the track this year. The handling of the KW kit is so good its like having a new car. Very little compromise and lots of increased performance. The quality of the kit is also amazing and the adjustability is good and easy. Cant say enough good things about it, we are also running KW on a shared 993 track car and it performs well on that too.
 
I feel that some compliance is required on the road so left the standard mounts on mine and now feel the need to fit front and rear strut braces instead (the added stiffness of the WM ARB`s made an old windscreen chip into a crack straightaway and I have tailgate creaks and groans that were not there before it was all fitted) as my set up clearly imparts different stresses into the car from the standard Mo30.

I`d be interested to drive a car with aftermarket ones to see the difference.
 
The M030 strut tops are pretty stiff as far as i'm aware. I've not noticed any significant reduction in ride quality due to the camber plates. In fact if anything I feel the front is riding better than the rear. I had thought about knocking the bump setting back one notch on the rears while leaving the fronts as is but am currently enjoying the unbelievable levels of traction i'm enjoying now and wouldn't want to compromise that by introducing more squat. Who needs an LSD!
 

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