Looking at buying a 996

[912UK]

Been here before some years back when my wife and I looked at a 996 with the intention to buy it. But changed our mind last min.. that was 5 years ago now and now I am back to take a look.

I know nothing about these new cars I am more an air cooled 50's-60's Porsche man flat 4 so this 6 pot is new to me..

I am looking for a safe buy of a car with say 60k -80k on the clock with some history if not all the history.

I am not sure if I want a stock car or a factory fitted Aero kit.

I have to say I have always played safe in my life so having a factory aero kit would be nice..

So having seen cars from £11k - £20k what is wrong with these £11k cars??

I am confused?

there is loads of choice and I keep thinking £11k for a super car for the working man this just can't get much cheaper ( they will I am sure but not below £5k over the next 5-8 years+ ) just tracking 944 ownership they are holding at a decent price as they go down over the years. I would rather buy a decent car and spend good money than buy a project to spend the same amount to still make it a lesser car!

I am not out for out landish performance but then I don't want to buy the runt of the litter.. So over to you for a 996 run down..

 

[steveoz32]

The 996 is still a great car, but not without it's share of issues.

At the entry level price in the market you could end up buying a shiny car that appears good but will cost you thousands or you could get lucky and bag a bargain just because someone wants / needs to sell it.

The buyers guide on here is a great starting point, and something I printed out and took with me when looking.

I've mentioned in another recent thread that already at the 10k mark we are seeing cars being sold as people can not afford to keep them or they have faults. The market has a lot of cars around this price at the moment but as more fall into the wrong hands or get neglected the market will sort itself out and a nice clean 996 will hopefully command a better price.

I would potentially say, that depending on budget, let's say you were looking at a 16k motor, you could purchase a 10k motor and have enough set aside for an engine rebuild! I guess what I am trying to say is, that it may not be best to max out you're budget. The issues people are concerned about can happen to a 30k car or a 130k car.

You will find narrow body c2 and c4 for the 10-15k mark, between 15 - 20 you will be looking at c4s.

C4s are more popular with the wide body and turbo......

Ok grrrrr out and typing this while walking on my phone has just made me delete lots in error! I'll finish the post when I get home lol.

 

[912UK]

ok thanks I remember down loading that buyers guide last time I will do that again..

I am also looking at top end of my budget a 997 with 41k on the clock for £23,500

I intend to keep what ever car i buy for a long time. I am looking to scale down my collection to the 54 ,69 and 996 or 7. Sell 2 x 912's 1x 944 and poss my Merc. None of these car sales are to raise funds for the new car. It's just I have too much on my plate with all that lot. Having 2 olds and a modern would be a nice balance. well in my head that sounds right. The only reason I wouldn't sell my old Merc is she generates money ( weddings )

So this engine issue of the cylinder walls is still on going then?

I had also glanced at 993's but I just think the 993's are priced not because of their age etc but because of the demand and poss over the top prices. I have seen some real rough 993's and they want top dollar! Plus I wanted to get away from an older car. Hence going more modern.

 

[steveoz32]

997's are considered 'prettier' by many, the single head lights rather than the so called fried-egg look or hybrid 996.2 is preferred by some groups (going back to it's origins).

I can't disagree, but then, neither can I say that the 996.1 or 996.2 are ugly (providing clear clusters are used on the .1). The reality is, drive a 996 past a non 911 owner then a 997 and they will likely think they were the same car. Only on close inspection will you find the most obvious changes such as the rear cluster move and bumper line shape, and the headlights. The body remains for the most part, exactly the same.

To be honest, the disdain (somewhat of a strong word, but after a few glasses of wine my vocabulary shrinks! ) for the so called 'fried egg' lights came from orange clusters and the fact that the purest hated that they were used for the boxster. Had the boxster had another design it would have simply been the 'in' look for the 911. The fact of the matter is, the clusters were designed for the 911 first, but later they decided that the earlier boxster should inherit the look of the planned 911, this was simply to encourage purchases through the fact that it looked like it's bigger brother (and bring new customers to the marque at a lower price point) and had the added bonus of a simple cost effective production process for the cheaper model.

997's will have more toys as standard than a stock spec 996, if you are after a 'drivers' car, should this really matter?

I don't have a crystal ball sadly, I'd love to predict values and such between 996 and 997, I can have a go at 996's, but I still see the 996 having favor as the first of a new era, however, this could for all I know be ill placed in years to come.

Low 20's could see you with a nice cared for Turbo on around a 2002 if you play your cards right, but again there is a chance of a dog (but I would say less chance than a low priced non turbo). In terms of whether a stock 997 or 996 turbo is best, my opinion would be the turbo 996 (I stress simply my opinion). A stronger motor, more performance, higher spec and potentially a very sought after 'classic' in years to come being the first of the water cooled 911 variation of that time and a very well engineered motor.

No high performance 60-100+k motor will be full proof or a guarantee as you are well aware when they are X amount of years old and have depreciated to the point they have, I guess all you can do is research, check the potential motors out and go with a combination of your head and heart because, at the end of the day, you could plan the most financially viable option down to a T and it still may not be what you REALLY wish you had for one reason or another, so go with a balance of the two if possible.

I would drive a few variations at different price points, weigh up the pros and cons and then ultimately take the plunge.

Good luck!

 

[steveoz32]

P.S. The 997 block debate is moot as far as I am concerned, motors have had issues, but, ultimately the number of strip downs and cars that have issues will not be anything near the 996, only time will tell. It's only really in the past year or so we have started to see some real 'high' mileage 996's, and there are ones with over 140k on that are still on original IMS and blocks etc that are running ok, there are ones that have failed with 100k less though, and, the internet is not something to go by. Everyone is an apparent 'expert' in this day and age of technology and will state rumors as fact from what they have read and Chinese whispers. Also rarely will people seek help or advice on forums for a perfectly good running car!

As a potential buyer all you can do is research the best you can, and have a motor checked out as best you can. In any situation I would set aside a potential buffer to give yourself room for any issues after buying. If longer term it's just another motor to add to the collection and that does not bother you then sure, spend the entire budget on a motor with a view to coping with anything it throws at you later (if time and funds are on your side). I am also in the somewhat privileged situation of having the 996 as more of a hobby car.

Of course though, the same can be said for any car, you pay your money you take your chances. You could buy the most reliable model on the planet and still encounter an unlucky one, it's something you have to swallow and deal with if and when it comes. On the other hand you could buy a blinder that gives you not the slightest pip.

All I can say is that, 996's have had a lot of bad press, some things have been hyped up way to much, but through this, they still remain a solid, fun, good looking and well performing motor that all of us are happy to own

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

I like the 996.1 lights. They somehow look more "designed" to me.

Nobody ever called these fried eggs:

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

ORIGINAL: steveoz32
All I can say is that, 996's have had a lot of bad press, some things have been hyped up way to much, but through this, they still remain a solid, fun, good looking and well performing motor that all of us are happy to own

Hear, hear!

 

[steveoz32]

Lol true!

At risk of going off topic how's the Cayman?

 

[steveoz32]

Oh and 912, make sure you keep a 912! They are 'cool'

 

[AlexBell]

Hey, I think it's worth the extra bob to buy from a reputible independant that know these cars. (from what I read JZM and RSJ seems like a good choice for example).

They will help you find the car you're looking for and hopefully give you a good guarantee which in turn will mean that it is in a good condition when you pick it up.

 

[912UK]

ORIGINAL: steveoz32

Oh and 912, make sure you keep a 912! They are 'cool'

Oh don't worry I had 4 until a few months ago I sold one as I have lost my mojo for classic's Hence the look for a modern..

I will prob sell one more 912 the 65 car later and just keep the two. The Andy Prill rebuilt engine 66 and my one I have had for years. Plus the Pre A as well


Ok thanks for the input I am catching up to speed from 5 years ago research and refreshing my mind as well as learning more..

Ok I have come up with this from all my reading and reasearch

a 997 for say £23k 40k on the clock is a totaly possible purchase. BUT the engine I am understanding the 997's are having more issues than the 996's. This would be a major knock for me if the engine where to go bang on me as I don't earn alot of money. Just keeping all my cars going is a full time job.

So I am now thinking well.... ( project, the word I didn't want to use ) may be look for a 996 with engine problems offer the correct money for the car needing a new engine and ship it to Hartec or Autofarm

That way at the very least I end up with an engine I can almost say well she's going to be ok..

am I right in understanding the following

IMS is a bearing in the gear box that really as a way of safeguarding the car is best replaced when bought.

Also the chains

two things that are replaceable both of which I can do my self.

Now I did say I didn't know anything on these modern cars but I have a question or 3


Narrow body cars and the wider looking cars

what's the model names of these..

Personaly I like the narrow body cars.. being a 912 and early Porsche owner I like the narrow body cars that are less well in your face! My stock broker friend likes the wide body cars and has one with his 997 a turbo look.. he mentioned to go for an " S " S being???

I totaly agree with the Turbo cars.. I think I would like over time to progress to a Turbo car in the future yes.. are the issues on these engine in the Turbo reduced? what about the Gt2 and GT3 cars? are the issues with the engine in them also?

because my dream car would be a GT3 or a GT2 and if that was the case I may well scrap the whole idea of a 996 and keep saving and sell one of my classics and just go for a Gt3 and be done with it. I have seen a Gt3 that is not out of question price wise but would mean I would have to cull a classic. Both for money and parking space.

Thanks for your help here guys


I have also had a chat with a guy who has a 2000 996 with oil and water mixing and been offered the car at a reduced price of £6k I have said it would have to be £5k leaving me with a bill of say £8k and peace of mind it's a new engine or repaired.

What are the new Porsche crate engines like as I remember seeing a car in LA a while back where it was on it's 3rd Porsche crated motor ( 1 factory as it left built, 1 warantee one and then 6months later another warantee one so 2 warantee engines ) !!! extream I know

also the M96 engine are the failiers as big a problem as they apear on the internet.. because people only complain on line if they have problem you don't see people saying I am so upset that my 996 is running perfectly and I have not had the pleasure of IMS failer!!!!!!!!

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

This will give you an overview of the 996 model range: https://www.porscheclubgb.com/legacy/clientftp/Register/996/faq_model_history.pdf

The problematic IMS bearing is located in the end of the intermediate shaft, which runs parallel to the crankshaft, and transfers the drive from crank to cams. The IMS bearing is at the flywheel end. The cylinder liner scoring problem seems to occur mostly on 996 3.6, 997 3.8, and 987 3.4 engines. Not sure about the 997 3.6, but a read up on the Hartech site would confirm it. Timing chain problems are rare. All can be affected by 'D chunk' liner failure, but it is rare.

Exchange 'crate' 996 engines are no longer subsidised by Porsche, as they used to be. An exchange 3.4 will set you back in the region of £13k, so a £5-6k Hartech rebuild is a sensible option, as it will have strengthened cylinder support, improved water flow, and a renewed IMS bearing. (The latest factory replacement engines also have an enlarged IMS bearing, as used on the M97 engine).

GT2, GT3 and Turbos use a completely different engine, based on the GT1 design. Mechanically, they are relaticely bullet proof, but the Turbos do suffer from rusty waste gate actuators, diverter valves, etc, but none are catastrophic failures.

Reading too many forums will frighten you. Personally, I think you should choose the model you want, buy the best you can, and enjoy it. Maybe fit a low temperature thermostat and an IMS Guardian (warning device). And in the highly unlikely event of a failure, could you find £6k to put it right?

If that 2000 car is the model you want, and is in great shape otherwise, it could be an attractive proposition. One of the other guys on here is doing an engine rebuild himself (with Hartech mods) but I think he may be finding it more expensive than he first thought. Look for a thread by sulzeruk.

 

[912UK]

great stuff.. lots to read though there..

Considering I was told by some who would know, Porsche conversion rate was 10-1 us the buyer pays 10 times what they buy it in at ..this rate was in the 60's I just wounder if the rate is still the same today.

£13k for an engine is shocking ! Esp as that is no garantee..

hmm might have to look at a Turbo and a Gt2 then

 

[thirteeneast]

I would say at the moment the whole 996 ere is at 0 gravity because of a confused market place.

 

[Ewan]

http://www.dorsetsportscars.co.uk/car.php?cid=455

Here's a link to a 996 you may wish to consider - mine! Like you, I have too many cars and want to keep my 944, so the 996 has to go. (Its on sale or return at this garage, so i can reclaim it from them and sell it privately for a good £2k less than the advterised price, and this include the remaining 14 months of warranty.)

When I bought this I knew I wanted the later model 996 (prettier exterior, better interior, bigger engine, better gearbox etc), the narrow body and the everyday assurance of 4 wheel drive. For me the C4 coupe ticked every box and if I hadn't just bought another Maserati and spent 15k refurbing and upgrading my 951 I wouldn't be selling it.

If you are interested and want to buy a lovely car at a private sale price, please come to me direct.

Thanks for looking!

 

[NNH]

ORIGINAL: steveoz32

Lol true!

At risk of going off topic how's the Cayman?

I moved from a 2002 996 to a 2008 Cayman 2.7. I bought the 996 at 50k miles and drove it up to 100k before I traded it in. It was pretty reliable, though I was glad to have a CPO warranty for a water pump and RMS, and to have US-legislated catalyst warranty too. Otherwise the $8000 total costs would have been a bit much to take! Rear tyres only seemed to last 10k miles at $1000 a pair, but the fuel efficiency was surprisingly good.

I miss the power and the slinky lines of the 996, but I like the handling and double boots of the Cayman. FWIW, it's much trickier to fit a rollbar and GT3 seats to a Cayman, but that may not be your first plan with a new car anyway!

 

[912UK]

Ewan

What a stunning car.. two things Auto and grey interior are items I am trying to avoid. Mainly Auto.

Other wise that car ticks alot of boxes and it's not a million miles away either.

Your all right with your comments the 996 market is confused for sure. I was talk with a fellow 912 owner who has a boxster and we spoke about the working mans sports car is no longer the tried and tested reliable car of old. talking about 3.2's

I am going to call this guy at Hartec and have a chat with him get some ideas on numbers of engine issues and read more. Also going to look at a Turbo at the weekend if it does not rain!!! it's over priced being its at a dealer who does not sell Sports cars. ( a worry, to how it got there ) but at £26,999 i'll take a look and see.. I think I like the narrow body cars in all honesty.

 

[912UK]

just putting it out there what do people think of this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-3-4-Full-GT3-Aero-Kit-LSD-Manual-FSH-Amazing-Condition-996-/160806403473?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2570cefd91

100% do like this Aero kit and I alike the red interior

 

[jdpef356]

Yes I like that[8D] However, would have to have inspected if it was a potential purchase.

Is it a Club Car? Conatct Warkwickshire RO!

A lot of people purchased a 993 because it was last of the air cooled!

I suggested that a limited edition early 996 maybe in many could rise in value being the first of the 911 water cooled!

A lot of people laughed - what do you think[8|]

 

[steveoz32]

The light red interior doesn't do it for me, but then you like it, so that's not an issue.

Other than the interior to me it 'sounds' like a potentially good purchase for the price, especially if the motor only has 39k, and if I were in the market for a narrowbody 996 I would take a look.