LPG S2
- Thread starter tref
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Neil Haughey
New member
ORIGINAL: tref
Does this make it easier to stomach?
Mind you, I have roof bars too.
It gets worse, the black NA is now a black S2, and his ABS works!
(unlike mine, but thanks Tref for verifying that my ABS main relay is fine)
Neil Haughey
New member
I am sure Tref will talk about it soon, but its a 924 turbo convertible one of perhaps 6 in the world ISTR built as aftermarket conversions. The amount of work Tref has put in to this car is amazing, I hope it gets finished soon because its more then an a year and a half now since I remember fitting my brake ducts at Tref's house whilst he tried to finish of the engine install (or was it removal).
The 924 Cab project has been over a year in the bodyshop, and it has been teh subject of many articles in the 924 section of Porsche Post... It will probably be the subject of many more once it comes out of the bodyshop too!
Anyway, back to the matter in hand, I took delivery of the conversion package today. Firstly I am so far impressed with the service of Auto LPG, who supplied me the components, primarily a result of teh phone call to say it had been despatched, and another to check it had arrived. They don't usually sell DIY kits, so I believe I am a guinea-pig for them in that respect, but if their conversion service is anything like their delivery, then they are to be commended - they did come to me recomended by teh chap that had an LPG converted 944 in 911 and Porsche world.
The components themselves are Aldesa. I have mixed feelings about the quality of some components - just looking a bit cheap and plasticy, but, that said all the technical complex bits really look good. the ECU is in a die-cast aluminium housing for example, it is just the injectors(plastic housing) and manifolds (plastic) that let it down to me... That said, I am used to (A) Porsche quality, and (B) working in the chemical industry where nothing less than Swagelok fittings are ever used.
I had it supplied without copper tube as I am planning on using Stainless Steel anyway, and I suspect I my change some other bits and pieces as well "because I can"...
I'll let you know how I get on.
Tref.
Anyway, back to the matter in hand, I took delivery of the conversion package today. Firstly I am so far impressed with the service of Auto LPG, who supplied me the components, primarily a result of teh phone call to say it had been despatched, and another to check it had arrived. They don't usually sell DIY kits, so I believe I am a guinea-pig for them in that respect, but if their conversion service is anything like their delivery, then they are to be commended - they did come to me recomended by teh chap that had an LPG converted 944 in 911 and Porsche world.
The components themselves are Aldesa. I have mixed feelings about the quality of some components - just looking a bit cheap and plasticy, but, that said all the technical complex bits really look good. the ECU is in a die-cast aluminium housing for example, it is just the injectors(plastic housing) and manifolds (plastic) that let it down to me... That said, I am used to (A) Porsche quality, and (B) working in the chemical industry where nothing less than Swagelok fittings are ever used.
I had it supplied without copper tube as I am planning on using Stainless Steel anyway, and I suspect I my change some other bits and pieces as well "because I can"...
I'll let you know how I get on.
Tref.
I'm watching this one with interest. The possibility of using LPG as a means of running a thirsty machine without mangling the finances has a huge appeal.
What do you forsee as being the hardest part of the job? As I understand it, it's comprised of three or four sections of work.
1. Mount tank in boot/back seat space.
2. Route pipe from tank to manifold
3. Drill and tap manifold to take injectors. Then put the injectors in.
4. Do the necessary electrical alterations to allow the use of an additional ECU.
You may have said, but how much was the kit (if you don't mind me asking)?
I have a friend who is planning to do something similar to his Scirocco, and I'll be helping with that project. If I learn anything useful in the process (although I suspect you will get to do yours before we do ours) then I'll let you know.
Oli.
What do you forsee as being the hardest part of the job? As I understand it, it's comprised of three or four sections of work.
1. Mount tank in boot/back seat space.
2. Route pipe from tank to manifold
3. Drill and tap manifold to take injectors. Then put the injectors in.
4. Do the necessary electrical alterations to allow the use of an additional ECU.
You may have said, but how much was the kit (if you don't mind me asking)?
I have a friend who is planning to do something similar to his Scirocco, and I'll be helping with that project. If I learn anything useful in the process (although I suspect you will get to do yours before we do ours) then I'll let you know.
Oli.
Getting it running properly!
Everything else is just basic engineering, that I am confident of... Its the witch-craft that goes on in the ECUs that I can't poke and prod about. The final set-up the company that sold the system are going to do.
Cost wise, so far, the components have come to £606, but that excludes mountings for the tank, and copper pipe as I will be making my own/using stainless steel where possible..
I'll be interested to hear of any experiences any-one has had... so far, it is interesting to note that I have yet to find any-one that has run a car on it that says anything negative. The worst was one owner (who says his only regret was that he didn't change over years ago) who had to have his tappets adjusted, but pointed out I won't have that problem with hydraulic tappets.
Also wondering about fitting NO2 nozzles whilst I'm drilling the manifold anyway!!!
Regards,
Tref.
Sadly I have yet to hear anything really positive about them ... and have heard it said (from a knowedgable source) thet he has never come across anyone who has converted their own car who has got it running right.
Worst I heard was from a good friend, who had a conversion done to her Ford Puma. She was doing a VERY silly milage every day (Bristol to Cornwall, and back) and had an LPG conversion done when the car was 3 months old. The conversion (apparently - I didn't get all the detail as she is not technically-minded) caused regression of the valve seats, which would have meant a head-off and rebuild job.
She took the car back to the Ford dealer she bought it from and traded it in against another new Puma. She knew that they wouldn't inspect it closely, as it was under a year old when she traded it in, and she drove off in the new car.
I am sure there are success stories out there (and Tref- I really am NOT trying to p155 on your fireworks) but I have yet to hear them.
Oli.
Worst I heard was from a good friend, who had a conversion done to her Ford Puma. She was doing a VERY silly milage every day (Bristol to Cornwall, and back) and had an LPG conversion done when the car was 3 months old. The conversion (apparently - I didn't get all the detail as she is not technically-minded) caused regression of the valve seats, which would have meant a head-off and rebuild job.
She took the car back to the Ford dealer she bought it from and traded it in against another new Puma. She knew that they wouldn't inspect it closely, as it was under a year old when she traded it in, and she drove off in the new car.
I am sure there are success stories out there (and Tref- I really am NOT trying to p155 on your fireworks) but I have yet to hear them.
Oli.
Welcome to p155 on my fireworks if something constructive comes out of it... especially if it stops my car going like a rocket (whoosh....Boom!).
I have heard tales of valve seat regression, and wondered about the chaps that were so happy with theirs, that needed the tappets adjusting, but apparently not, as it has been running fine for the past two years.
You are right regarding the "not running right" thing, hence this is the bit I am expecting to cause the biggest headache. I wonder how much of this is the fact that at the end of the day, the calorifc value of lpg is lower than that of petrol, and people are expecting petrol performance... because the octane rating is higher. Otherwise I am prepared to accept a performance compromise or lpg "sweet spot" so long as I can tune it to be where I want it... i.e., mind-numbing 70mph motorway-mile-munching. So long as it will do that, then I can switch back to petrol.
If it impacts on petrol performance I won't be happy though!
Regards,
Tref.
I have heard tales of valve seat regression, and wondered about the chaps that were so happy with theirs, that needed the tappets adjusting, but apparently not, as it has been running fine for the past two years.
You are right regarding the "not running right" thing, hence this is the bit I am expecting to cause the biggest headache. I wonder how much of this is the fact that at the end of the day, the calorifc value of lpg is lower than that of petrol, and people are expecting petrol performance... because the octane rating is higher. Otherwise I am prepared to accept a performance compromise or lpg "sweet spot" so long as I can tune it to be where I want it... i.e., mind-numbing 70mph motorway-mile-munching. So long as it will do that, then I can switch back to petrol.
If it impacts on petrol performance I won't be happy though!
Regards,
Tref.
On a matter of ensuring I don't do too much damage, I was planning on taking some engine temperature measurements before I carry out the conversion, on some typical journeys.
Any-one any ideas of simple, cheap means of doing this? I really want real-time monitoring - an LCD display on the dashboard will be adequate rather than data logging, and one of the most important temperatures to me will be that of the exhaust.
Any suggestions for sources of suitable equipment?
Regards,
Tref.
Any-one any ideas of simple, cheap means of doing this? I really want real-time monitoring - an LCD display on the dashboard will be adequate rather than data logging, and one of the most important temperatures to me will be that of the exhaust.
Any suggestions for sources of suitable equipment?
Regards,
Tref.
I have a very vague recollection of an article in "911 & Porsche World" magazine about 18 months or so ago about a company (maybe in the Leeds or Sheffield area but i might be wrong) that has carried out such conversions on a 928 and, I think, on a 944. Might be worth "Googling" for info or try the magazine for contact details.
Edited to say that I took my own advice and found this link to an article via the "911 & Porshe World" web site:
http://www.chpltd.com/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=chphilite&srchkey=lpg&filename=911_porsche_world/fuel.html&srchtype=a
Edited to say that I took my own advice and found this link to an article via the "911 & Porshe World" web site:
http://www.chpltd.com/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=chphilite&srchkey=lpg&filename=911_porsche_world/fuel.html&srchtype=a
Andy,
The chap in that article was who put me on to teh company I am dealing with - teh person that originally did that conversion has retired. That 944 continued running on LPG for the next two years after that article, clocking up 300k miles! In that time the only failure was a coolant hose.
This was a major factor in convincing me to continue...
Xenon,
It depends how you are using the vehicle... I have a Sunday afternoon 944 (Turbo), I wouldn't even consider converting it. How-ever, I also use my S2 day in, day out; the times I can use the performance are rare. As I said, most of my time is sat at 70, half throttle, on the motorway. Loss of performance will not affect this.
Running costs are roughly half that of petrol, and I put £70 of petrol in the tank every week. Sometimes more.
I'll let you do the sums!
It isn't for every-one I'll grant that, but in my application I am hoping it is worthwhile... and hopefully what I learn will be of value to others in making up their own mind!
Regards,
Tref.
The chap in that article was who put me on to teh company I am dealing with - teh person that originally did that conversion has retired. That 944 continued running on LPG for the next two years after that article, clocking up 300k miles! In that time the only failure was a coolant hose.
This was a major factor in convincing me to continue...
Xenon,
It depends how you are using the vehicle... I have a Sunday afternoon 944 (Turbo), I wouldn't even consider converting it. How-ever, I also use my S2 day in, day out; the times I can use the performance are rare. As I said, most of my time is sat at 70, half throttle, on the motorway. Loss of performance will not affect this.
Running costs are roughly half that of petrol, and I put £70 of petrol in the tank every week. Sometimes more.
I'll let you do the sums!
It isn't for every-one I'll grant that, but in my application I am hoping it is worthwhile... and hopefully what I learn will be of value to others in making up their own mind!
Regards,
Tref.
F1Flyer
New member
On a matter of ensuring I don't do too much damage, I was planning on taking some engine temperature measurements before I carry out the conversion, on some typical journeys.
Any-one any ideas of simple, cheap means of doing this? I really want real-time monitoring - an LCD display on the dashboard will be adequate rather than data logging, and one of the most important temperatures to me will be that of the exhaust.
Any suggestions for sources of suitable equipment?
Try RS Components? Big range of thermocouples and related kit.
Any-one any ideas of simple, cheap means of doing this? I really want real-time monitoring - an LCD display on the dashboard will be adequate rather than data logging, and one of the most important temperatures to me will be that of the exhaust.
Any suggestions for sources of suitable equipment?
Try RS Components? Big range of thermocouples and related kit.
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