MAF - Would I notice the difference ....

[Suffolk944]

...if I invested in one ?

Not so much in power (which I take would be minimal) but in the characteristics of the engine ?

What have those of you who have taken this step found to be the benefits ? Have browsed the websites for Vitesse, SciVision and Lindsey and I know all of these have been bought by various people on here. Have they proved reliable and beneficial ? Would be looking at a plug and play rather than the whole piggy back set up at the moment.

Ta []

 

[Peter Empson]

I have the SciVision on my S2 and it makes a great difference to throttle response and general driveability. I believe Turbo owners have experienced the same, but I'm sure some will be along soon to add their findings.

Mines been 100% reliable, I've cleaned it once, but I don't think it needed it and I run an oiled cone filter which they're not supposed to like.

 

[Diver944]

I installed the Vitesse MAF about 3 months after the new 3.2L engine was run in. The main reason was to counteract problems with oil being sucked from the sump beacuse of the huge vacumn between the AFM flap and the turbocharger. The MAF has hardly any restriction compared to the AFM flap so it solved that problem immediately, but the added benefit was a noticebly faster spoolup of the turbo and a higher level of boost for the same setting of my boost controller. The Vitesse also compensates to deliver the right amount of fuel whatever the boost level. I commonly have 3 levels - 12psi, 15psi and 18psi and the AFR is always spot on no matter which one I use.

I later had the piggyback installed to fine tune it even more but the Vitesse chips were within 95% of perfection even though he'd never supplied them for a 3.2L before

 

[sawood12]

Vitesse is the only true MAF (semi) plug and play solution so I'd say is more suited to the turbo. The Sci Vision kit is not so much of a true MAF solution as a signal converter so the ECU still thinks you've got an AFM and operates as such - e.g. if you were to increase boost pressure you'd need to get some new chips for it, however the Vitesse kit is true MAF meaning you can vary your boost pressure, swap out turbos and make other major mods without having to touch or re-tune the kit and you will get spot on tune every time. Now with the Vitesse piggy back and V-Flex software you get a MAP sensor so it uses the MAF for fuelling and the MAP sensor for ignition. However you are looking at around $2000 though for the full setup which is on par with a decent stand-alone.

 

[edh]

Would you notice the difference? - yes, but i wouldn't call it dramatic compared to some of the mods you can do. It is a no-brainer if you plan other mods (different turbo etc..) and it's nice to have the option to turn down the boost if it's wet. It's pretty easy to install.

Has it been reliable? - no, had one MAF failure last year, and a fault that I think related to poor earths - the car ran very rich for a time this year. (There's a post on rennlist at the moment suggesting that you need to pay particular attention to earths & vac/boost leaks if you want to install a MAF)

If you go for a "stealth" install (not sure if John is still doing that), then you won't notice much difference in noise, but there's a big difference with a J-pipe & K&N ! - mine sounds fantastic on the track now [] On the road you notice the turbo / dump valve noise more when the windows / sunroof are closed IMO, but that's only really noticeable when you're pressing on.

John's support is first class - i wouldn't go anywhere else for a 944 MAF, even with the problems I have had.

 

[Big Dave]

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson

I have the SciVision on my S2 and it makes a great difference to throttle response and general driveability. I believe Turbo owners have experienced the same, but I'm sure some will be along soon to add their findings.

Mines been 100% reliable, I've cleaned it once, but I don't think it needed it and I run an oiled cone filter which they're not supposed to like.

What Pete said. I had one on my S2 also, + found exactly the same improvements..
If your AFM is on its way out, then its the next step by fitting a MAF...

 

[A.Wang]

What Pete said. I had one on my S2 also, + found exactly the same improvements..
If your AFM is on its way out, then its the next step by fitting a MAF...

My AFM is certifiably dead at the moment, and our mutual friend - knowing what I'm like whenever money is involved - told me not to bother with a MAF conversion. I was told the difference and performance gain would not be worth the expense...or was it something to do with championship/series regulations excluding modern MAFs.

I can't exactly remember exactly what Kev said, but I'll shortly be getting another AFM...

 

[Big Dave]

Its poss more to do with the championship regs...

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: A.Wang

I can't exactly remember exactly what Kev said, but I'll shortly be getting another AFM...

I doubt it'd make you that much quicker over a lap so I can see why he would be against it, but it does make your car feel 10 years younger which is why I like it, this especially the case on the road.

 

[edh]

Probably won't make much difference at WOT - which is where a race car is going to spend most of its time.

I'd suggest there's more benefit on a turbo

Judging by my RR graphs, the stealth MAF boosted around 200-300 rpm earlier, and (but for a boost leak []) looks like it would have given more power. I think the differences would be even more marked with a non-stealth MAF. This was on a car with standard wastegate & LBE

The red lines are from a run in 2006 (944 dyno day), the blue lines are when I fitted the MAF. I traced the boost leak to a loose jubilee clip []

 

[TTM]

I have run a SciVision MAF on my S2 for several years, racked up several thousands of miles with it in all sort of weather and it never let me down. Though I never bothered having the power output measured it may well have unleached a couple of extra horsepower, but most of all it significantly improved throttle response and driving on light throttle, where the original AFM would sometimes make the engine hesitate and make driving slowly not a totally "linear" or "smooth" experience.

I later fitted a SciVision MAF to my (chipped) turbo and although the gains in throttle response were not as dramatic as on the S2 it brought the same user friendlyness. All with the airbox and snorkel.

On the turbo fuel efficiency increased a bit - I once did 30 mpg while I could never get better than 27 mpg with the AFM.

The set up for my turbo may be up for sale in the coming weeks (some other project has drowned all my money and my bank account looks pretty bad by now), along with the MaxHP chips that were designed to work with this MAF.

 

[barks944]

I have almost completed building a MAF converter, its similar in principal to the scivision MAF converter. The total cost so far for the prototype with a £5 Bosch hot film MAF from a scrappy is < £50. When its done I can publish a guide on how to do it but I could also get some kits made up if people are interested.

 

[sawood12]

Jon, have you considered standalone? I've been a huge advocate of the Vitesse kit, but recently i've been considering standalone over Vitesse even though it will be a bit more expensive and more of a hassle to set up. This option seems attractive to future proof and to guard against core ECU failures. In the past i've discounted this options but recent my research has found that most standalone companies offer plug and play harnesses to get you going with a MAP sensor, then you have the option of going fully sequential fuel injection, boost control, ignition tuning and whatever bells and whistles you might fancy. The software these days has come on and alot of the main maunufacturers do more cost effective mini-versions of their main ECU's which are perfectly adequate unless you really want to go to town. I'm becoming a real convert. The biggest potential issue is getting active knock protection like you have with the stock KLR.

Also there is the option with some standalones for features like Launch Control, traction control etc.

 

[Suffolk944]

Am pretty non techie so anything too involved gets a bit daunting (which I guess a standalone option would represent for me at least) but never say never !

Just to clarify as I have non-standard chips, run extra boost etc would I need the extra piggy back element that the likes of Vitesse or Lindsey offer or would the "basic" MAF kit do the job ?

Thanks for all the responses. []

 

[sawood12]

I know what you mean about getting too involved, but I've recently had a new addition to the family so now have two daughters and am looking for a hobby to get me out of the house when the oestrogen levels get too high, so it's even Golf or my 944. I quite havn't given up living yet to take up Golf!

For the Vitesse standard kit you wont need the Piggy Back. This is a plug and play solution that just plugs in, in place of the AFM, and you need to replace the DME chip. This kit costs $1250 plus a bit more for the AFM to MAF adaptor to prevent you having to cut into your AFM loom and 75lb injectors. The Piggy back offers features such as the V-Flex, ignition timing tuning via MAP, boost control and all the other piggy back bells and whistles. This is a bit more involving on the installation side and is a further $850, but will get you an near Standalone level of capability given the limitations of the sensors- i.e. you'd be hard pressed to get as good results with a Standalone with the same engine hardware.

 

[edh]

The standard Vitesse MAF will be fine - It is a pretty straightforward job. I have the install pdf's if you're interested.

A bit more involved than plugs & filter type servicing, but not too taxing

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: Suffolk944

Am pretty non techie so anything too involved gets a bit daunting (which I guess a standalone option would represent for me at least) but never say never !

Just to clarify as I have non-standard chips, run extra boost etc would I need the extra piggy back element that the likes of Vitesse or Lindsey offer or would the "basic" MAF kit do the job ?

Thanks for all the responses. []

How long before you will feel the need for a bigger turbo? []
I went for the Vitesse MAF to replace the SciVision MAF in order to be able to tune myself an engine running a non-standard turbo that would have required full dyno tuning if using a chipset that worked with original DME/KLR standards.

If you are sure you will be running the K26/8 for a long time then I think a SciVision will be good enough and much easier to install. Even some idiot like me who hates dealing with wires installed it on his own in about half an hour - you really do just plug it in and go []
The SciVision will work regardless of the chips you run and will be good enough I think with a car running either of the original KKK turbos.
As said above the Vitesse MAF will be a better choice if you feel like fine-tuning your engine yourself and consider upgrading to a bigger turbo later, though it's definitely not a plug & play device.

 

[barks944]

Does the sciVision MAF require an external power source?

 

[mr brightside]

ORIGINAL: barks944

I have almost completed building a MAF converter, its similar in principal to the scivision MAF converter. The total cost so far for the prototype with a £5 Bosch hot film MAF from a scrappy is < £50. When its done I can publish a guide on how to do it but I could also get some kits made up if people are interested.

I'm interested in that guide straight away definitely, i think our cars have the same engine. I've wanted to get rid of my barn door maf ever since my 'more power' thread and emails i've sent to suppliers of scivision and other companies have gone unanswered.

Start a separate thread once you've got the finished thing working if you would please, thanks.

 

[barks944]

I've had the car running with it already and the throttle response is much better than with the stock unit even when poorly tuned. I have a wideband AFR meter which I have been using to tune the unit, I have been able to adjust the AFR at idle from about 10-16 with no problems. The main difficulty is adressing a number of non-linear variables that are present in the MAF sensor and the AFM, I'm pretty close to having that nailed down though.

The device is usb programmable and calculates its output to the DME using the MAF sensors, I might add closed loop AFR control.