My new 982 718 Cayman S PDK

[MrDemon]

as it's only a face lift the 718/982 is a 981 with a 4 pot, it that's simple.

so what's lost is the flat 6, that's not hard to work out they have down graded the 981 and made a cheaper car !

the next gen Cayman will be a real new model so time will tell, but it's now an entry level car, over a model in it's own right imo.

If you like the Torque at 3k revs then that can be a gain, but then every new car is like this now so a bit mainstream, ie like a golf !

A real sports car needs that something to make it a cut above a normal car, a engine with more that 4 cylinders goes a long way to set it apart, from a golf !

I would rather a RS3 like Chris has or a Golf clubsport than a 982 and say an Elise in the garage those 2 cars are still cheaper than a new list price 982 !

or a base level 911 even the 911 has a 6 pot turbo ! so not 4 pots in site for the 911 range.

My Cayman R is still a better car than my GT4 to drive as a road car if you like cars, less grip and more feel, so I am not slating the 982, it is what it is, but to loose a Cayman R is a hard nut to swallow as it's one of Porsche best ever cars imo.

I even think the 982 seems a cheaper build than the 981 also, it def for the 1st time feels alike a poor mans 911 to me. And I hate that saying as it's a bloody expensive car.

 

[ChrisW]

I agree Mr D but P just don't have an option and anti-lag will improve --- P have tried very hard to retain a top-end which is hardly the gift of any turbo system outside of possibly McLaren ??

And it does enable them to extend the availability of Naturally Aspirated for those that resonate with this, in the GT3 and possibly GT4 that little bit longer.

For those of us who live for the interaction of enjoying and developing our skills in the driving process, this segmentation of the customer base is both a welcome "necessity" -- and I hope will also broaden the customer base for P.

Reasons to be cheerful, were P's priced in the historical Dm I am certain that they would be at least 25% more expensive ....

 

[Brian_Innes]

Since becoming active on this forum 5 years ago, I have enjoyed being informed and entertained by the diverse opinions expressed by those of us who enjoy our Cayman's whichever derivative we may own. Particularly, I have found myself in accordance with the opinions and technical advice given by the prolific Mr D on such topics as choice of mods, tyres, track driving, model choices, and spec advice etc. In almost all instances I have found myself in complete agreement with his views.

However, as regards MrD's opinions on the 982/718 Cayman, I disagree completely with his dismissal of this new model as a retrograde step and a degrading of the Cayman model's place in the Porsche range. For MR D to repeatedly compare the 982 with a Golf is simply ludicrous, stupid nonsense. The 982 is not even in the same book as a Golf let alone on the same page. One is a mid-engined two seater sports coupe with a Porsche badge, the other a front wheel drive hot hatch saloon from VW.

Allow me to me put my case for the 982 as a 4 time Cayman owner, the last being a Cayman R manual which I owned for 4 years and 30k miles, which ran faultlessly in track days and competitive motorsport, competing in sprints and hill climbs over a fairly intense 2 year period of my ownership in 2013/14. Incidentally, for the record, I attained 5 podium second places and one first place, and all within a competitive timed environment in official MSA organised speed events. My CR manual was also in virtually standard road spec. The only modifications were wheel spacers, a GT3 MC, EBC yellow stuff pads, de-snork, BMC air filter, and Michelin Cup 2/ Toyo R888 rubber according to the event entered.

I made the choice to move on to an individually specced 718 Cayman S PDK following the successful sale of my superb CR in mid 2016. My new 982 was never intended as a replacement for my CR. They are both entirely different beasts, and the 982 was for an entirely different purpose. Due to the onset of winter in the Highlands, I have only been able to drive my new car for 200 miles. So as yet I cannot meaningfully comment on the merits or otherwise of the new model. That will have to follow at a later date after my car has completed the running-in procedure. Thus far I can see it coming that there will be plusses and minuses and give and take with this new car. The full verdict will follow later.

What I can say at this stage, is that the 982 is unquestionably a dynamically superior car to the 981. It has 4 pot front brake callipers, 330mm thicker discs from the 911 Carrera S, 911 10% quicker Turbo steering rack, stiffer rear subframe, extra rebound helper springs in the front struts to counter nose lift on acceleration, revised geometry front and rear, and if the 20" Carrera Sport alloys are specified, a 8.5" wide fronts and 10.5" wide rears giving an wider track front and rear. This combined with the new -20mm Sport PASM gives the new car grip and poise closer to the GT4 than the 981. May I also cover the points made on the new twin turbo 911 Carrera. I drove both the Carrera and Carrera S PDK models on the same roads as I am familiar with near Inverness. The 911 is a bulkier, heavier, front-end bobbing Grand Touring car, with less accessible rear luggage space and useless rear "seats". The entry level Carrera specced as I would like it costs £25k more than my individually specced 982. My car also has the superior CS brakes, is far more agile and practical and has a smaller footprint for the roads that I drive upon. My choice was clear, the 982 specced as I would like it was the best choice for me.

Mr D makes the point that the 982 turbo 4 pot is "fine if you like your torque to come in at 3000 revs, all bit mainstream, like a Golf" What utter tosh! As a lifetime motorsport competitor I would never, ever, dismiss the availability of train-pulling torque at 3k revs as "fine, if that's what you like". A wide torque band makes the power more accessible and the car more enjoyable to drive, period. I will comment more fully on the new engine and power delivery in the higher rev ranges at a later date. As regards the cabin quality, I came from a 987.2 CR. The 982 is streets ahead in cabin build quality and technology compared to the 987. The new PDK is also much improved as is the Sport Chrono.

It was inevitable that many Porsche owners will look upon the 982 as a degraded and "cheapened" Cayman. Nothing that I will say will change that, but to dismiss it as such would be very unfair in my view. Porsche had no option but to go down this emissions-led road and the Cayman Boxster were the obvious candidates, but they are both still premium sports cars with class leading dynamics which competitors can only dream of. The new 982 may well be considered by some as the entry level Porsche but that is of little consequence to those of us who are not model snobs, only keen drivers who enjoy an agile and responsive mid-engined sports coupe. I will give an honest appraisal on the car later in my ownership. So far, I think it'll be fine.

Brian

 

[Twinfan]

All very factual Brian, but where's the emotion? Where's the hairs-on-the-back-of-your-neck excitement? Where's the love at first drive?

The throttle response and howl of a naturally aspirated flat six as the revs rise charge the emotions like nothing else, and all that glorious excitement just doesn't exist in turbo'd flat four. They're very different engines at the heart of the cars, as you acknowledge, and unfortunately the new one is closer to a Golf/Skoda/Seat/Subaru than a 911 as it was previously. The 718 is still a great car to own I'm sure, but in my opinion a two-seater coupe should fire up feelings of lust rather than a fact sheet of stats and figures.

Sorry if this comes across as trashing your thread, it's certainly not meant to be like that! I'm just trying to express what those of us who adore the organic feel of an NA engine are missing now that one of the greatest has been removed from sale.

It sounds like the 718 is a perfect fit for you - long may you enjoy it [] It's certainly not the best fit for me though, and other 987/981 owners, hence the massive difference of opinions across the Porsche community.

 

[MrDemon]

I jest with you Brain , the Golf jibe is just both have 4 pots engines

lets not forget the golf came 2nd in EVO car of the year this year and has amazing reviews.

I might even buy a Golf Clubsport tomorrow and in manual !

putting a 987 vs a 982 is not fair imo. esp what one is like inside.

but putting a 981 £60k GTS vs a 982 would have been interesting and you may well think a little more like I did.

and then you might not say "I disagree completely with his dismissal of this new model as a retrograde step"

A 981 GTS is 911 spec inside and has a flat 6, again like a 911, the 982 to me feels cheaper than the 981 inside and has the 4 pot (like a Golf) hence the disappointment, regarding sound and torque well that's also like a Golf so yet more disappointment , I can only say it how I feel after having one along side a R and 981 at the same time for 2 days. (driven hard 2 days also)

I don't think any one here is a model snob as we all choose Caymans over 911's and that speaks volumes imo.

On the plus side I like the front shark style bumper and better brake set up.

but for me after a 987 I would have had to buy a 981 GTS for my £60k and 911 calipers are a straight bolt on if you wanted bigger brakes.

I am never going to like the 982, I have to be honest about it, so do I not post and people call me nasty for having a view and upsetting people, (so others say) or do I post what I feel after doing quite a lot of miles in one ?

I always think if some one posts a car on a forum then one has to take the good and bad reviews of said car from others.

Cars are metal items and personal views are just that, a view about a metal item.

I hope you love the 982 and I hope it's all the car you wished for, sadley it's not for me, and I have very strong views (like I did with over hyped GT3 owner ship), so some people might say "Don't post" at all if you have nothing nice to say !

but if every one just says "great car Brian" then it's all a bit suck up /fake imo

I even slag my own cars off (I have had 65 cars plus and nothing is perfect) , my review of the GT4 was dire at the time but I still bought one ! but I have had to fix 1 or 2 of it's short comings and if a manual 4.0 GT3 is launched the GT4 is history.

The GT4 is a great car, I do tend to point out shortcomings over singing praises.

I also spent £8k on my 987.2 Spyder to fix oem short comings, nothing is perfect and every thing is built to a price and worse still now built to co2 rules !!! hence the dead spots and VW fixing !

It' was my GF birthday yesterday ;-) she came down stairs and said "do you like my new nail varnish" to which I said "nope"

I cannot help it have a great week.

ps looking back at my GF's question I should have said "yes" it was her birthday after all ! and I did feel a little guilty :-(

PPS the nail varnish did look rank though !

 

[Brian_Innes]

A very fair response Mr D, and also you, Twinfan.

I completely agree about voicing our honest opinions on the Forum and it would cease to be fun if everyone agreed with one another. Like you say it would all become a suck-up love-in and it would be a complete waste of time. Your Golf comments just pushed a button for me.

The evocative howl of the flat-six I absolutely love, and it is a great disappointment that Porsche did not see fit to transplant the 911 3.0 twin turbo flat-six into the new Cayman. I guess it's the same old "golden goose" story again, with marketing being fearful of usurping the 911 market. When will they realise that the Cayman has a distinct market of it's own with very few Cayman owners aspiring to owning a 911.

My decision to buy the best spec 982 Cayman S PDK I could afford was a very personal one following a rather devastating health diagnosis I had confirmed last year. I have motor neurone disease which currently is only affecting the fingers of my right hand. This was beginning to become an issue on track days with my manual CR when gear shifting, especially when exiting high speed corners, leaving the weaker grip right hand steering the tiller. I decided the new model 982 Cayman S PDK with all the latest technology gismos would be best suited to my future needs. I hope to be able to enjoy my new car for at least a year or two before I have to leave the joys of Porsche driving and ownership forever.

I turn 70 years of age this week, so the new car was also the biggest ever birthday present to myself. I'm sure my late wife would have approved. I have never before spent so much on a car. That is why this one is so special to me personally, and I quite accept the change of power plant does not appeal to everybody. I guess I'll live with it ok.

I'll be posting more comments on the good and the bad about living and owning the 982 in the coming months. I have also booked my entry for the PCGB Knockhill track day in June. I'm looking forward to seeing how my new car compares to my CR on a track I know extremely well, albeit probably at a slightly reduced pace from the motorsport events I did there in 2014.

I shall continue to enjoy reading the informative and often entertaining views and opinions of fellow enthusiasts on this Forum. I will also enjoy contributing in my own small way to helping others with their questions and choices. There is a massive pool of experience and knowledge on this Forum.

Finally Mr D, you girlfriend is a Capricorn like me, and she will take your nail varnish jibes with good heart, just don't push it too often........ Capricorns never forget.

Brian

 

[John H]

A good debate gentlemen, conducted with decorum, and having driven pretty much every Cayman derivative going let me say for the record I vote wholeheartedly for Brian!

John H

 

[MrDemon]

70 is a great age Brian to still be enjoying low slung sports cars for sure.

Have a great B-day this week.

I hit the 50 year mile stone soon and already thinking of Luxury cars with heated seats.

having back issue for the last 2 weeks getting out the R is a right job and I must look a right fool.

The GT4 seats are worse again !

I thought you were still in your 50's to be driving Cayman R's with buckets seats etc

The 982 is going to drive awesome, the tech and PDK better again, I think every ones issues are just that loss of the flat 6.

Track driving it will be faster than another other past Cayman with that torque.

Only thing I would do is move the top mount shock point as large understeer was a issue in the one I drove say -1.5 front camber, that should need no parts or show any signs of tinkering.

No one is pissing on your chips, we will just all miss the flat 6 going forward and I think a lot of people do feel strongly about it and will move brands or trade up to 911's.

The extra brake power you will love btw and great upgrade to the 982.

I hope I am track driving at 70 , enjoy in good health

 

[Brian_Innes]

Thank you David. Very much appreciated thoughts.

Although I'm now 70, I'm still 25 inside my head...... I keep fit with cycling, I have an e-bike now to assist on the hills and head-winds. The cycling kept me fit enough to still cope ok with bucket seats at 66-69 years old. I've a slim frame which helps, but with the 982 I decided to go the sensible route and opt for the sports plus seats. It's been the right choice.

On the front camber issue, I'm an old hand at setting up geo from my racing Stiletto Imp special saloon days, so I made the point to my OPC to max out the negative camber slots on the front top mounts, and set the front toe to as near zero as they could allow. I've had a look underneath the covers and it looks like they have done exactly as I asked. The car looks good with some neg on the front, especially with the Carrera Sport alloys on my car. (Shhh, I may pop on some front spacers for Knockhill).

The engine note of the 982 does take some getting used to. I'm a rev-happy driver and loved the howl of the flat-six. It's just going to take time to get used to the different sound of the flat-four. Once I've got a few miles up I'll start extending the engine a bit more and see how it feels and sounds on the upper reaches of the power band. I had no choice really but to go for the new 982 due to my circumstances, but I fully acknowledge that some may move on to other brands or models.

I'll be posting honest comments both good and bad at a later date once I've sussed out the car properly and had a go on the Knockhill track day with it. Be interesting also to see if the new P Zeros are any good when I start leaning on them at track day pace.

BTW my birthday party was a blast!

Brian

 

[Brian_Innes]

Cairngorms run last week in my new 982 CS PDK.

Empty roads, blue sky and full sun. New 982 CS PDK ideally suited to this environment which is home territory for me.

Still running-in, but already the 982 CS in the spec I have chosen, is proving more adept at this sort of drive than the CR ever was. Although steering not so tactile and communicative. Liked the quicker steering ratio and smaller, Alcantara GT steering wheel. Power delivery of the new flat-4 turbo ideally suited to the terrain on this trip. I've done this route many times in my CR manual and it is a much more frantic affair due to the emissions flat spot at 3k to 4k revs necessitating an early down shift to a lower gear. Not so with the flat 4 turbo. Anything above 2500 revs and it just flies out of the hairpin bends. I averaged 24 mpg on the 130 mile trip.

Very impressed with the -20mm Sport PASM. Not so jarring as the CR even when on Sport mode. I did the whole trip on Sport mode and used the paddles as I would a manual shift. This is a quick car point to point across roads like these.

More impressions later.

Brian

 

[Brian_Innes]

800 miles up now. I always had the expectation that this car would be a backward step from my sublime CR manual.

With the spec I have chosen, the more I drive it, the better it gets.

Brian

 

[Motorhead]

Good to hear that Brian.

Keep the reports coming - you'll soon be able to use the full performance..!

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

These photos give you an idea of the kind of roads I drive on with my new 982 CS PDK.

Please bear that in mind when I am giving my subsequent review on my ownership and driving comparisons with my much lamented CR. It's not motorway-land up here.

Brian

 

[Gazoak]

Great photo with the mountains in the background Brian. The Graphite Blue and wheel combination is perfection to look at [] I'm envious. We have some great driving roads only an hour away in North Wales but I cant wait to get my Cayman S up North sometime in the near future.

 

[Brian_Innes]

I love your roads in North Wales Gazoak. It's like the roads at home for me.

I attended the Anglesey track day and Llandudno events last year and enjoyed the drive on the EVO triangle. Quite busy with like-minded traffic on that occasion!

I'm booked for the same North Wales PCGB events again this year in May. I'm looking forward to it.

By that time my new 982 will be well and truly run-in.

Brian

 

[Brian_Innes]

My £300 option choice of painted side intake grills has a downside.

The side intake grills being much more in the airstream on the 982 are very susceptible to stone chips. I would guess these hits are coming from the front wheels whilst cornering. Remember, I am not living in motorway land up here in the Highlands. My roads are real driver's roads.

The half-inch wider 20" Carrera Sport alloys fill the wheel arches and look very good. They also throw the gravel chips onto the side intakes as they offer a wider track than the other alloys. Maybe Porsche knew this from testing and specced the car with the utility black plastic intakes with a distinct purpose. I just thought the black plastic looked horrible.

These are the things that can only become apparent from ownership. I'm sure there will be more such niggles to follow as I roll up the miles.

Brian

 

[Buddy]

Nice photo of your Cayman with the winding Scottish road in the background reminds me of many visits to Cumbria with various Porsches I have owned, I actually got to drive a Cayman 718 S PDK over the last couple of days and while it was very different to my 987.2 S PDK there were things I liked/disliked as well as missed when I got back into my own Cayman.

To compare the cars being 5 years apart both are S models, PDK, PASM, PSE, Sports Seats and so you would expect should be easy to compare, the new car certainly accelerates well and the turbo boost comes in relatively smoothly to keep the torque building although at first to my old ears it did seem rather harsh which is probably due to the physical location of the turbo and it's pipework, the cornering with the revised suspension and wider 20" wheels felt good but then my own car is still riding on my 18" winter wheels so as temps are a little high for the winters hardly surprising the larger tyres feel better, I must admit I'm no fan of electric steering as the feel isn't there but everyone will be getting used to it at some time although on the move is it really needed and couldn't the Porsche engineers bring a system in which is manual at speed and assisted for low speed. The six pot brakes were really impressive with terrific feel to them and I had to be wary of SUV's behind whenever I used them.

Overall, I think the new model is a winner, I don't like everything but could get used to it, the most aggravating thing was the rasp of the turbo noise in the midrange which as I have said is probably due to it's location when I've driven flat sixes for the last 12 years and come from the front engined cars before that, I have said before that if Porsche had raised the rear boot floor I'm sure a flat six turbo would have been relatively easy to install but the flat four has been in the pipeline for many years and is nothing to decry as some did the six when Porsche first brought that out.

I'm wondering what the next step change will be.

 

[ralphmusic]

Kevan,

The 718S has the same 4 piston front and rear calipers and discs as the 981S. The 991S front 6 piston calipers and 340x34 discs can be fitted to a 981S but I don't think 992 brakes can be fitted to 718 models.

Or did the one you drove have PCCB?

 

[Buddy]

Well Ralph it didn't have the PCCB's and the front callipers were longer and of heavier appearance, there also appeared in the castings to have three piston housings, just from looking at the calliper body, the front callipers were larger than those on the rear. In the driving the brakes were very positive. I had noticed the larger front callipers on other 718S models at the dealership so they must be the standard fitting but I'm unlikely to be there again anytime soon so won't get opportunity to take photos, maybe they are two pots but larger pads and hence larger callipers but they are certainly effective and require less pressure than those on my 987S.

 

[ralphmusic]

Kevan,

From the Porsche site...

http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/718/718-cayman-s/safety/porsche-ceramic-composite-brake-pccb/

"In sport, performance counts. It applies to the engine and it also applies to the brakes. The new 718 models are therefore equipped with four-piston aluminium monobloc fixed calipers.

On the new 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman, the brake calipers come with a black finish – red on the S models. Brake disc diameters are 330 mm at the front and 299 mm at the rear.

To make them tougher yet lighter and enable a more rapid response – even under extreme loads – the brake calipers have an enclosed monobloc construction.

The pedal travel is short and the biting point precise. The brake discs are crossdrilled and internally vented, which helps to provide improved wet braking and optimum cooling.

[h4]Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB)[/h4]Proven in motorsport, the Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB) is available as an option. On the new 718 models, the cross-drilled ceramic brake discs of PCCB have a diameter of 350 mm at the front and rear – for even more formidable braking performance.

PCCB features six-piston monobloc aluminium fixed brake calipers on the front axle and four-piston units at the rear – all painted in yellow – to provide braking forces that are considerably more powerful and, crucially, are exceptionally consistent.

PCCB enables shorter braking distances in even the toughest road and race conditions. Safety under high-speed braking is also improved thanks to its excellent fading stability.

Another advantage of PCCB is the extremely low weight of the ceramic brake discs, which are approximately 50 % lighter than standard discs of a similar design and size. This results in better roadholding and increased comfort, particularly on uneven roads, as well as greater agility and a further improvement in handling."

If you use the compare feature on the Porsche site for the base 718 v 718S, the only difference between the two is Black v Red callipers and the S having "Reinforced brake system compared to 718 Cayman" - whatever that means.