New 2010 Porsche Turbo driven

[jools360]

I was lucky enough to drive the new Porsche 997 Turbo at the press launch at Estoril Circuit last week, it was quite simply astonishing. They have increased the engine size to 3.8l, used direct fuel injection, upped the compression ratio and used a form of dry sump. The result is more power (500PS) and torque (516 ftlb) at lower boost levels (0.8bar normal 1.0bar overboost), which combined with the variable geometry turbo has all but eliminated turbo lag. I have never driven a turbo car which has such instant, and gut wrenching acceleration.

Improvements in the tyre compounds (we were regularly seeing 1.2G cornering and braking!), the new PTV (Porsche Torque Vectoring) stability control and re-working of the PSM has resulted in a car which you can drive really quickly whilst being in complete control, it really does flatter the driver. Barrel into a corner too fast, and you can hang onto the brakes and turn in, and it just grips and turns. You can leap onto the throttle really early in the corner and it just catapults out. I have driven the GT-R, and this is in a different league.

As I work for Racelogic, I managed to put a video/data system on the car during a launch control (0-60 in 3.2s!) the video is here: [Launch control]

A picture I took:

This is one of the very best cars I have ever driven.

 

[tscaptain]

That's a very nice vid and thank you for sharing it here! Just over 1.15g initial acceleration and 0-200kph in a shade over 11 secs isn't too shabby! (It looked like 0-100mph in around 7secs?) It's also interesting how Porsche seem to underestimate the performance figures. Mine is given as 4.4 to 0-60 with PDK and launch but I've seen a vid showing it around 4 secs. But, as we know, it not just about acceleration times and interesting to note your points about the handling aspects as well.
Of course the anti-PDK brigade will be out again........![] Now the only problem is how to afford it.......[]

 

[Alex L]

Thanks for the video - looks great your Racelogic kit!

I don't know any 997.1 Turbo owners considering trading in (at a cost of probably about £40k!) for the new 997.2 Turbo. Especially when a modified Stage II 997.1 Turbo (for £3k to £11k) still blitzes the new model:

Perhaps if you didn't have a Turbo already, perhaps if you weren't concerned about the frailty of the new wet-sump engine (which rumours indicate Porsche is struggling to put more than 530PS in reliably), perhaps if you would never consider modifying (given torque limits of the PDK box and the engine)... only then might you be dazzled enough by the Porsche marketing hype on the new car. Most of the guys on the main Porsche forums though seem unconvinced. They all want to see Porsche actual go racing with this engine before they will go near it.

Still - launch control would be nice to have though...

 

[Nick_USA]

ORIGINAL: jools360

I was lucky enough to drive the new Porsche 997 Turbo at the press launch at Estoril Circuit

So are you a 'dealer' or 'press' then .... very interesting first post.

 

[jools360]

I was there because Porsche were using a number of Video VBOX systems on the launch, so I was providing support and managed to sneak in a few drives! I couldn't believe how many launch starts these cars were doing every day, without trouble, and they were so consistent in the 0-60 times, 3.24, 3.21, 3.27, 3.20, one after the other, hugely impressive!

The 0-100mph time in the video was 7.13s, fastest in that session was 7.08s.

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: jools360

I was there because Porsche were using a number of Video VBOX systems on the launch, so I was providing support and managed to sneak in a few drives! I couldn't believe how many launch starts these cars were doing every day, without trouble, and they were so consistent in the 0-60 times, 3.24, 3.21, 3.27, 3.20, one after the other, hugely impressive!

The 0-100mph time in the video was 7.13s, fastest in that session was 7.08s.

I love that Video VBOX but it is *insanely* expensive []

 

[jools360]

The Pro version is quite expensive, but we have just launched the Lite version which is half the price...(£995+vat for a fuill two camera system).

 

[marlin]

Thanks for that Jools, any idea were I can get 100K any time soon []

 

[Rotorhead]

The turbos have never really appealed to me.

The early ones were a bit too brutal and the technology on the later ones dulled the dynamics.

But, from what I've heard, this one is a bit special. Not too fussed about the outright performance, more interested in the 'real world' driving experience.

Love Porsche when they get it right.

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: oliver
But, from what I've heard, this one is a bit special.

Hi Oliver - where exactly have you been listening? All the Porsche webboards I go to are recommending people buy the MY09 Turbos with the GT1 engine over the MY10 Turbo with the engine that costs 1/4 of the price for Porsche to make (and how much of that saving is passed onto the customer?!) and is 'for some reason' not present in any of the facelift GTx models...

A fully loaded 997.2 Turbo will cost you in the region of £120k, and it's STILL slower around the NBR than the 2007 Nissan GT-R at half the price. Porsche seem to want to make us all forget that.

 

[bobfair]

Julian great video thank you. Its great to see the new car in action and the times are impressive. 10 seconds quicker round the ring than the Gen 1 car

How did you find the "aural" experince of the car? Did it seem very quiet? The reason I ask is that I had a Gen 1 Turbo and when I first got it I was dissapointed with the driving experience as the car was so quiet. A bit of help from DMS fixed that and I learned to love the car.

Gary how about getting Race Logic to do a presentation to the 997 group one day as they now have some interesting products geared towards the track enthusiast and a few vdeos of your famous drive outs would go down well on the forum

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: bobfair

Gary how about getting Race Logic to do a presentation to the 997 group one day as they now have some interesting products geared towards the track enthusiast and a few videos of your famous drive outs would go down well on the forum

Hmmm, video evidence of one of our spirited drives [&:] I would record track events yes, public roads no.

The 'Performance Box' (about £300) has been on my wish-list for some time now. Everyone raves about it, but it may push me to test 0-200kph times in places I really shouldn't!

 

[garyw]

The camera system is something I've been looking at for a while, quite a few about...(a friend of mine has just set up a company hiring them out- not sure what make though)
I agree with Alex that the cost was prohibitive and the new version does seem to be more realistic for us non- professional type drivers [] but interested in what Julian could offer to us as a register if he's up for that..- in the way of demonstration/talk.

As far as them on the 997 drives, I think I read/see enough people being chased by online officers without wanting to give them more evidence of people enjoying themselves on open and uncluttered roads...[]

So, Race logic- were all ears []

garyw

 

[bobfair]

I was thinking of recording the great scenery such as we saw in the Welsh valleys all enjoyed at road legal speeds of course

 

[Rotorhead]

Alex

I treat most 'webchat' with great scepticsm. The internet enables everyone to be an expert and opinion (often motivated by self-interest) gets promoted as fact. And, of course, Porsche can't (won't) answer back.

Generally I find it's more helpful to talk to the project management team and listen to the wisdom of the best commentators.

When I was looking at the (then forthcoming) 997GT3 in 2006, Andreas Preuninger and Chris Harris were both very helpful and enlightening. Meanwhile the 'webchatters', who had never seen or driven the car, were telling everyone who would listen that - PASM would compromise the GT3 on track, PCM, cruise, audio, etc meant it had gone soft, the PCCBs would disintegrate after a few thousand miles, and the michelin cups would be fatal in the cold/wet, and the 996GT3RS was far superior. Of course none of this was true (except the 996RS on track, perhaps)

My interest in the new Turbo is academic but, from what I've read and been told, I every confidence that it will set new standards. Whether it is a fraction of a second faster or slower in extremis is of no significance to me, and the nurburgring boasting rights have limited credibility. Most 997 Turbos will serve their miles on the road, and with any Porsche, it's how it inter-reacts and rewards in the real world that is of greater interest. And it's in these areas that I hope it has improved.

Any really good Porsche must satisfy all the senses - that's why I've always had great affection for the Boxster, and still keep an air-cooled 911 []

 

[Alex L]

These engine strength rumours come from both Ruf and RS-Tuning engineers who are in contact with Porsche engineers on a regular basis and are some of the most knowledgeable Porsche engine guys on the planet. Yes, I would normally dismiss such webchat but given the source I (and many others) are paying it much more credence.

To be honest though, I think not many Turbo owners will know or even care what engine is in their Porsche given most will never see a track and even less will go to a tuners. This is one of the reasons why I think the facelift GT3 and GT3RS still have the old engine, theses customers tend to be much more knowledgeable and discerning in this area, and the new engine is not at all race proven yet.

There is also a reason why the new Turbo engine has been limited to lower revs and lower boost pressure. I guess the proof will be in the pudding 2 years after release when people's warranties start running out and engines may or may not need replacing.

I personally see this move as a way for Porsche to save some money (given how massively in debt they are) and make a start down the path to decrease CO2 emissions with DFI engines. Not principally for the benefit of the customer. PDK with paddle shifts is the real headline here, finally Porsche actually listening to their customers...

That question from Bob about the new Turbo's sound (engine+exhaust) is a very good one. The Turbo I would say is the worst sounding car Porsche make (given it doesn't allow for a Sports Exhaust option). So to 'satisfy all the senses' this is something that definitely needs improving.

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: Alex L

ORIGINAL: oliver
But, from what I've heard, this one is a bit special.

Hi Oliver - where exactly have you been listening?  All the Porsche webboards I go to are recommending people buy the MY09 Turbos with the GT1 engine over the MY10 Turbo with the engine that costs 1/4 of the price for Porsche to make (and how much of that saving is passed onto the customer?!) and is 'for some reason' not present in any of the facelift GTx models...

A fully loaded 997.2 Turbo will cost you in the region of £120k, and it's STILL slower around the NBR than the 2007 Nissan GT-R at half the price.  Porsche seem to want to make us all forget that.

A recent car magazine borrowed a GTR without permission and took it on the ring with a respected Ring tester/racer getting times. With normal tyres it was slower than the GT3 and way off the claimed times. The interviewed race driver indicated that different tyres and a non standard geometry at least were required to get any where near the official time. Nissan were not happy and issued a very strongly worded letter on the subject and tried to get the guys to retract their findings, they wouldn't and it didn't go to court. That tells you something.

Porsche figures are obtained using a tyre and one of the road settings that is available on a production car and have always done so, so NBR time comparisons here are apple and pears. I am sure if you put slicks and a fancy geometry on a TT you could get a much faster time[]

I'd want to see how they compare on real driving roads. I have no doubt the Nissan will be excellent but so will the Gent 2 TT. If you saw the earlier blog, consistent start times with Journo's and other mortals of 0-60 in 3.2 and o-100 in 7.1 thats seriously quick for an unmodded car. Notice that they were 2 up as well. Most other manufactures get their times by lot of starts and picking the best numbers. So again apples and pears.

DFi is the way forward, we need to get over it. Just like water cooled versus air. Emissions restrictions and increasing demands for higher performance and economy will kill off the non DFI engine in short order. Porsche has some protection for GT's as they are supposed to be race homoglation cars but the others have to tow the line on emissions.

Also the hype on the GT1 engine - it wouldn't win many races now in its original form, it was heavily modified thought its life. The % of its components in an actual road car are minimal. The wording in the press gumph givers it away, "derived from". The old engine had reached the end of its life in the 997 TT. It was costing them a lot of money in manufacture to work around its limitations. In the same way a steam engine is more expensive than an electric for a train, it doesn't make it better.

The 997.1 TT engine was also very different from the GT3 engine, albeit they shared some components. In the same way despite the phrase "all new DFI engine" for the 997.2 TT there will be carry over parts from the 997.1 engine as well as some common parts with the cooking 997 DFI engine - it is a different engine from the one in the stock 997's.

As a Halo model its a well established rumor that Nissan are loosing an awful lot of money on each GT-R it sells but if that helps sell 100's thousands of Almera's, Quashqi's, etc then net the company benefits. Porsche isn't big enough to do that, each model line has to make a profit or it gets dropped.

Having said that I am a big fan of the Gen 1 TT and it would take the new car to be something to get me to part with the extra cash of buying one new versus buying a second hand Gen 1. especially with the 997 replacement only 2 -3 years away.

One for the potential side benefits of going DFI will be after market tuning. Once Porsche get comfortable with large scale production and reliability of DFI - the technology allows tuners a broader range of performance improvement opportunities, especially for normally aspirated. FVD have a 420hp C2/4S conversion that was out within weeks of the Gen 2 relaease and reckon they'll get another, more powerful conversion out in the near future.

So I think the answer is we won't know how good or reliable it is until produciton is fully under way and there are numbers of cars on the road in everyday use. I for one will be very interested in the press reviews that should be coming out shortly, now they are getting the chance to drive them.

 

[berty987]

Great write up, this will be a truly spectacular car on the road I'm sure. As to lap times of the ring , these are interesting , but I guess it depends why you buy a car and what your requirements are. Sure, the New Skyline GTr is quicker, but a tuned version of the old version is probably quicker still , if its all about performance you can buy any car and tune it to stupid levels at a fraction of the cost of a new turbo. I think the new turbo is about pushing the limits of power whilst improving fuel efficiency and control , keeping it safe to drive on real roads , meeting or exceeding the new emissions requirments. The old racing engine (however good it is) cannot continue with the current pressures on emissions , so it's time to move on to new technology. What's good about the new engine is that the developments are likely to be more readily transferred to other models in the range , since all the engines are now based on the same block and DFI technology. I've already read a lot of comments from PDK owners wanting the turbo paddle shift system, I'm sure the vectoring technoloy will be another system likely to be optioned on the 4 models in future. Unfortunately the Nissan has an image problem of street racer, fast and furious neon street cruiser, whereas the Porsche Turbo is more of a prestige model with genuine credentials and a touch of class. It may not be the quickest car on the road , but its one of the quickest Porsches !

 

[jools360]

Yes, that is the one criticism I had, the car didn't make the right noises. Yes, it sounded impressive as it tore down the straights on full boost, but it sounded like a lot of tortured air being compressed into a small space (which, I guess it was!). The exhaust note was non-existent, and this is an important ingredient in a supercar. It had none of the scream of a Ferrari, or rumble of an Aston, both sounds I love, and ones which add to the enjoyment.

As regards the question of what we could offer the register, unfortunately we can't offer individual discounts, but we have organised group buys in the past where for a number of systems (10 or so) we can offer 5-10% discount. Not much I'm afraid, but we have tried to make our retail products as competitively priced as possible, leaving not much room for discounting.

We would love to organise a presentation to your group, it can be at our premises with a guided tour, or at a mutually convenient location.

 

[bobfair]

I agree with Tom and Mike that its time to move on for reasons they have articulated well. A lot depends on how you want to use the car. I want a sports car not a pure GT and I want to enjoy the driving experience. I like to use my car for track days where I can enjoy more of the performance so I would be concerned about the lack of a genuine dry sump in the DFI version as you can pull a lot of G's in these cars and oil starvation doesnt bear thinking about. I dont understand why the Turbo is the only car in the Porsche range that they wont supply a sports exhaust for thereby forcing us to go elswhere. I thought my Gen 1 Turbo was a fantastic car especially on the road apart from the noise it made.

I hope to enjoy the more raw character of my GT3 for a few years but I could see me going back into a Turbo in a few years time finance and environmental restrictions permitting . I expect the DFI version will be developed just as the last engine was but if you cant afford a new one I think a Gen 1 Turbo is a performance bargain and a real keeper