New clutch?

Guest · Apr 10, 2007

I've just bought a 964 with full service history (the previous owner had it thoroughly checked over, highlighting any areas of concern, this was only 6000miles ago), during my second day of ownership a loud high-pitch whine is heard whenever I change down at anything but crawling speeds.

Is this a typical sign of a clutch needing replacing? It's like nothing I've heard before on any other car with a worn clutch, and the guys at the Porsche specialists didn't pick up on it.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

I'm booking it into Jaz Porsche in London at the end of the month for a service regardless, but I'm hoping it's not going to include a clutch job.

chrism964 · Apr 11, 2007

Clutch problems usually manifest as:
1) Heavy clutch pedal
2) Difficulty engaging gears
3) Slipping under load e.g. when accelerating in higher gears the revs shoot up to 4000-5000 before dropping down and allowing the power to be transmitted to drive train.

Whining sounds more like a gearbox/transmission kind of thing but it's difficult to diagnose these things without being in the car to hear them. Other things that spring to mind would be wheel bearings etc

Alexander_Drobik · Apr 11, 2007

Most likely it is the gearbox - an oil change may sort it else it is signs of wear. The boxes are usually bullet proof with the usual issue being snycho wear. See what the specialist says but unless the car has done a lot of miles an oil change should help. Is your a c2 or a c4?

Guest · Apr 11, 2007

Thanks a lot for the advice guys, I hope it can be sorted as you say with an oil service. The car is a '90 C4 Coupe, 110K miles (top end rebuild done at Jaz Porsche at 97K.

Guest · Apr 11, 2007

By the way lads, when I got the car I was with the insurers I've been with for years, Norwich Union. They had been charging me £600 third party only on an '86 924S. Then a friend recommended trying Adrian Flux (www.adrianflux.co.uk), I'm now insured on a 964 C4 fully comp with a £250 excess rather than a £400 excess, and all for £700 per year.

I rest my case.

Steve Brookes · Apr 11, 2007

ORIGINAL: Alexander Drobik

Most likely it is the gearbox - an oil change may sort it else it is signs of wear. The boxes are usually bullet proof with the usual issue being snycho wear. See what the specialist says but unless the car has done a lot of miles an oil change should help. Is your a c2 or a c4?

Alex (or anyone else for that matter),

How easy is a gearbox oil change? I fancy doing it for good measure since I can't find it itemised in my service records.

964rh · Apr 11, 2007

Steve

I'll let you know after the weekend.

From the research I've done you need some oil (duh), a 10mm allen socket, replacement plug washers (part no 900-123-011-30) and a length of 1/2" tubing. oh and an assistant!

1 - make sure the refill plug comes out (you don't want to drain and then find you can't fill back up.
2 - Undo drain plug, let oil drain away and replace with new washer.
3 - place 1/2" tubing into refill hole and stay under the car while your assistant slowly pours the new oil (using a funnel otherwise you'll be there all week and use sh1t loads of new fluid!) until it overflows through the refill hole.
4 - Refit plug and new washer.

You have to hold the funnel as high as poss. to get a decent gravity feed, you should need about 4 litres of new oil.
Apparently, g/box oil stinks like cat p1ss so be careful if you don't get covered in the stuff.

You can see the drain plug without the gearbox cover removed (you will have to take off the engine cover if it's on) and the refill plug is about 1/2way up the gearbox.
Check out www.p-car.com for pix.

Rob

Guest · Apr 11, 2007

Nice one Rob, that's great info.

Cheers.

38F3E1 · Apr 11, 2007

When exactly does it happen during down change ... is it when you press the clutch ... slide it into gear ... or let the clutch back up?

Coming from left field here but perhaps it's something like your belts slipping as the engine speed suddenly jumps as you let the clutch out ?

Ian.

Guest · Apr 11, 2007

It happens as my foot comes off the clutch, sounds worryingly similar to a bandsaw cutting through thick material!

Guest · Apr 11, 2007

I'd never driven a 964 prior to buying mine, so I've got nothing to compare to, but it has taken a considerable amount of technique to pull away without either stalling or over revving... is this usual, or has that just made it clear that I need the clutch replacing??

Alexander_Drobik · Apr 12, 2007

It is not usual - I recall feeling the clutch to be heavier than most cars, and also that you had more prower so feeding the clutch a tad more - but that is all. The overrevving is proably too much heavy foot, but the stalling would indicate a worn clutch or the clutch fork etc being worn/in need of some grease. If you clutch has done more than 50k miles it is probably worn, if it is more than 10 years old it is probably old - either way.....

Guest · Apr 12, 2007

I can't find any evidence in the history of a new clutch, the cars obviously 17yrs old and it's done 110K, albeit with a rebuild at 97K. Thanks for the advice.

Steve Brookes · Apr 12, 2007

Is the lack of evidence of the clutch being replaced and the easy to stall phenomenom being experienced by Coitteno, a classic sign of this being one of the few 964s that hasn't had the DMF replaced?[

]

I'd agree with Alex that on first driving my 964 I was surprised how heavy the clutch pedal was (new clutch 25K miles ago) but stalling is generally not an issue and the gearbox is a delight to use after a few minutes driving.

Rob - thanks for the link. The last bit about the new oil proving to be not as good as the old and therefore having to change it again was a bit worrying. Make sure you use the right stuff[

].

Guest · Apr 12, 2007

What is the DMF? I've not come across that before.

Steve Brookes · Apr 12, 2007

ORIGINAL: COITINO

What is the DMF? I've not come across that before.

DMF is the dual mass flywheel. Cars from 1990 to 1992 had a problematic type of DMF. This was remedied by using a different manufacturer for the flywheel on later cars (apparently cars were a pig to drive with the 'bad' DMF). By now virtually all 964s made between those two dates have had at least one new clutch and the DMF changed to the later design. It's difficult to visibly see if the DMF has been changed so it's best to find the evidence in the service records.

Have a look here for more info

http://www.porsche964.co.uk/

the page you want is under 'history' and then '964 biography'.

TJW964 · Apr 15, 2007

ORIGINAL: COITINO

I'd never driven a 964 prior to buying mine, so I've got nothing to compare to, but it has taken a considerable amount of technique to pull away without either stalling or over revving... is this usual, or has that just made it clear that I need the clutch replacing??

My 1990 C2 has just gone on for a 12k service at 112k. Told a valve spring gone on top no 2 and possible that they might need to take engine out to change valve. Having seen the space they have to make change and the force needed to compress the spring I am not surprised!

Anyway, I also have a minor oil leak onto area around clutch which might explain my clutch issues. I also had issues with starting when I first got car, but simply got used to it. Never felt any slipping of clutch but told that if clutch is not engaging/disengaging correctly that it might be putting extra strain onto synchromesh.

Upshot is, if they are taking engine out might as well do the clutch and DMF at same time, as going to cost £600 for service plus £300 for engine out, so might as well use that to do two jobs at the same time. Makes sense, but looking at about £2,500 to £3,000 for total bill. Ouch!

Anyone know if I can add this to the value of an otherwise nice/clean car ? Please say yes, whatever you think.

Guest · Apr 16, 2007

Strangely, the clutch problem I was having that day which sparked off all of the above discussion has now completely disappeared.

I couldn't believe it... I even gingerly changed down through 5th to 2nd approaching a roundabout having each gear engage at around 4000rpm and it was fine.

I even tried changing down to 4th at 80mph (not to good for the car I realise, but I was testing things) and that was absolutly smooth as well.

I'm a bit happier now, although I will still mention it at its service. There's nothing worse than driving around on the first day of buying a 964 with a churning stomach at the thought of replacing a clutch.

Thanks for all the advice and expert knowledge, it's been great to hear it all.