New owner - advice saught UPDATE

[Gordon Attar]

Interesting, this is the sort of feedback people need. Not impressed with Strasse ref warranty, gearbox oil and the MOT test, if it cant pass a MOT its not fit for purpose!! Did they give you a 12 month MOT with the car? You need to get the oil replaced in the gearbox before worrying any more but 2 to 3rd should be no different. Especially concerned about the 3 month warranty, there is a new European directive which essentially means its pointless not giving a 6 month warranty! Not a good sign Buying from a dealer You now have six months to complain. In the last year or so the legal position has changed significantly as a result of a European Directive; there is now a new Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations. This means that car dealers and garages have to prove if they receive a complaint within six months about a car or part they supplied that it was OK when they sold it. Yes, the obligation is on them to prove it was in good condition.

 

[Trap125]

Hi guys,

I've had my 993 C2 ('96 58k miles) for 6 days now and I'm thoroughly enjoying it! I love the looks and the sound!

I'm impressed with the steering and feedback through the wheel - far better than my Cayman S and a little more akin to my previous Exige S2. The car handles and steers very well, always letting you know what is going on. Obviously I need a lot more time at the wheel to get used to the cars characteristics but I really think I'm going to enjoy the rear engine balance and controlability on the throttle.

I took the car to my local Porsche specialist today to have it checked over. Peter, who owns the company gave me a guided tour of the car while it was up on the ramp. He was very impressed with the cars condition and reckoned it must have been garaged for most of its life as all the usual corrosion spots were in excellent shape. He noted that the car had a 2S bumper fitted but could find no signs of any front end damage or work or anywhere else for that matter. The car is still on standard suspension but that too was in good condition. There were no signs of any oil leaks, the engine was as dry as a bone and no fault codes showed up. Peter noted that a K&N air filter had been fitted (and was clean). What are your thoughts on those? So far so good! Peter thought the car was very clean and in great shape.

However, a couple of niggles cropped up. First of all Peter ran the car through the MOT omissions test as the car has a cat bypass (with Dansk mufflers - sounds great!) and he couldn't get it to pass - fair enough. Now, I bought the car from Strasse in Leeds. They originally thought the car would fail it's MOT due to the bypass and were trying to source some CAT's but I think they were looking for 2nd hand and were struggling. I suggested they run an emissions test and see how the car got on as it was - it passed! Good news all round and I was assured that their man was very strict with these things. Obviously now I know that isn't true! Peter reckoned there was no way it would pass on his machine - he just had it re-calibrated in July. Actually I really like the sound from the de-cat but obviously it won't pass an MOT so do you think I should bring it up with Strasse and ask them to source a couple of CAT's?

Second issue. I told Peter that Strasse had changed the gearbox oil as part of the pre purchase service but Peter pointed out that this had not been done. He showed me the drainage and filler bolts and these hadn't been touched. Something I will definitely bring up with Strasse.

This brings me on to the 3rd issue. I noticed a bit of transmission chatter when the car is idling - only when it is well warmed up. Peter confirmed that it was a bit more than normal considering the milage and may warrant further investigation but a gearbox oil change may help. What's your experiences with transmission chatter? As soon as you push the clutch down it stops. Changing up the gears 1st, 4th, 5th and 6 feel perfect but 2nd and 3rd are a bit 'notchy' for want of a better word and not as good a change as the other gears (even when everything has warmed up) - no problems going down through the box though. What are your thoughts and experiences?

Well, thats it so far. I love the car and I'm very please I took the plunge!

PS The car has a 3 month warranty from Strasse

 

[jdpef356]

Welcome to 993 ownership - and lets hope what turns out to be only a few minor niggles.[:-] - The 2S PU is obviously from a wide body car - I would not have thought that this was possible to fit to a narrow car - perhaps Im wrong? No doubt others will comment on that. In so far as the emission test - do they still not issue the print out with each MOT showing the levels of emissions? I have only had one dealing with Strasse and found them to be very efficient and friendly. They have been in the Porsche business a long time and I would like to think they would want to retain you as a customer. I think as this stage it may be wise to keep your powder dry!! Call in and see them and take the car if possible. Keep things to a chat - bye the way the car failed the omission test - you recall you were sourcing bits for the exhaust etc etc! And the same with the other problems you have -I'm pretty sure with what I consider to be minor fixable faults its in the dealers interst to retain you as a happy customer![] In the meantime enjoy your ownership - it sounds like a fine car you have purchased.[]

 

[Melv]

Emission...

 

[jboult]

Can't comment on a lot of your points, but in my experience a friendly chat with the dealer usually gets things sorted out - particularly if it's a place with a good reputation (they have that for a reason). Someone with better technical knowledge than I can probably confirm or deny, but I thought emissions changed depending on the temperature of the car (lower when running very hot), so perhaps this accounts for it? Certainly works for the dB tests at track days, if nothing else! On the gear change, I've always found 2nd and 3rd slightly notchy on my car when going up through the box, and certainly not as slick as the other gears (or other model Porches I've driven). I've heard the same story from a number of owners, so I assume it's a general thing. However, a recent gear box oil change improved thing considerably, and gear changes are now much quicker (and even better with the revs piled on!). It will never feel as slick as some, but strangely these cars seem to work much, much better when pushing on... Cheers/John

 

[jdpef356]

Thanks Melv, my omission - have duly amended[]

 

[Stewart Rix]

The 2S PU is obviously from a wide body car - I would not have thought that this was possible to fit to a narrow car - perhaps Im wrong?

2S/4S/tt front PU does fit a narrow body car.

 

[pse_SC]

This brings me on to the 3rd issue. I noticed a bit of transmission chatter when the car is idling - only when it is well warmed up. Peter confirmed that it was a bit more than normal considering the milage and may warrant further investigation but a gearbox oil change may help. What's your experiences with transmission chatter? As soon as you push the clutch down it stops. Changing up the gears 1st, 4th, 5th and 6 feel perfect but 2nd and 3rd are a bit 'notchy' for want of a better word and not as good a change as the other gears (even when everything has warmed up) - no problems going down through the box though. What are your thoughts and experiences?

Welcome to you and your 993... good choice (I’m biased, of course)! You can get 2S front PUs (or aftermarket ones that look like them) fitted on a C2 - have seen them before (John - the front of a C2S is no wider than a C2). I would think that the ‘chatter’ you’re referring to could be the clutch release bearing (which is probably borne out by the fact you say it stops on depression of the clutch). When was the clutch last replaced, or has it ever been replaced (considering that at 50k+ miles they’re commonly due for replacement)? Fortunately have never had this sort of issue on mine and it’s now covered 139k miles, but have experienced this with many other cars. You should be experiencing no ‘notchiness’ in the gearchange either, in my opinion - have never had this, except once when it was an exceptionally cold outside temp. My advice is to take all 3 issues back to Strasse and have a strong word with them (particularly about the non-changed gearbox oil!), because, in the end, you’re the customer who deserves satisfaction.

 

[jdpef356]

My assumption was that Ossie was reffering to the rear PU (I know its wrong to assue[])

 

[Trap125]

Sorry, should have clarified - it is the front PU. Thanks for the help and advice so far. I'm just waiting to call Strasse this afternoon... I'll let you know how it goes...

 

[gresley]

I would be surprised if you have a problem - they've been around a long time and are really nice guys. Andrew W.

 

[Gordon Attar]

ORIGINAL: Stewart Rix

The 2S PU is obviously from a wide body car - I would not have thought that this was possible to fit to a narrow car - perhaps Im wrong?

2S/4S/tt front PU does fit a narrow body car.

The 2S front PU is the standard 993 PU with the extra piece stuck on top!

 

[Mark Elder]

As other, I don't think you will have a problem with Strasse, but the gearbox oil is a serious disappointment if they said they'd done it. Slight bulking on 2nd gear is influenced by the gearbox oil but the solution is not always new oil. There is a thread on this topic somewhere and I suggest reading it and then deciding which oil you want (then tell Strasse what they are to put in!)

 

[Mark Elder]

This is the gearbox oil thread, or at least a link to other links, settle down with a cup of tea for a long read! http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=629387

 

[Trap125]

Thanks for all the info and replies, Spoke to Strasse yesterday and they said the gearbox oil was definitely changed - "they wouldn't not do it for the sake of £30 in oil". I saw the the drainage and filler bolts and I have to say, it didn't look like they had been touched. Bit of a stand off there then. I told them the car failed the emissions test. They reassured me that the MOT station that passed the car was "completely independent" and it would not have passed if the emissions were above the limits. I was asked if the car was hot when it was tested. To be honest, it had probably sat for max 45mins after a half hour drive before it was tested twice. I guess I should have it tested again when really hot? As far as the chatter from the gearbox is concerned, they said it's probably "just" the release bearing. Is this something to be concerned about? They can't really comment on it until they can see the car again. So, I felt a little fobbed off. I kind of expected more of a "ok, thanks for you concerns, if you would like to bring the car in we will check these issues and rectify any problems" - not the case though. Maybe I'm being over fussy? Overall the car is in excellent shape but I feel I want these little things sorted out. Anyway, I'm going to take the car back to them on my way down to London, in just over a weeks time and leave it with them for a few days. I live in Glasgow and Strasse are in Leeds so not that handy to just drop by! I will just have to wait and see what they say...

 

[70sthrowback]

maybe a stupid q, so apologies. But when you say the bolts didn't look like they hadn't been touched, how can you tell? Also if the gearbox oil has been changed, wouldn't it look brand new. So maybe the guys you trust could drain some oil to verify? Giving you peace of mind or not? Just a thought intereted to hear how you get on as I use Strasse, so if they are cutting corners it would cause me great concerns.

 

[pse_SC]

Maybe I'm being over fussy? Overall the car is in excellent shape but I feel I want these little things sorted out.

No, you’re not being over fussy. If these points concern you (and they would me, too) then get them to sort it out! It’s no good for people to say ‘they’re great’ etc, when the issues you want sorting are specific to you and your car[]. Don’t be fobbed off again - it doesn’t matter how much ’good reputation’ they have if you are not completely satisfied with the car you have bought from THEM. If you feel you want these little things sorted out, it’s your prerogative as a customer.

 

[Trap125]

ORIGINAL: 70sthrowback maybe a stupid q, so apologies. But when you say the bolts didn't look like they hadn't been touched, how can you tell?

When I looked at them you could see that a key or spanner had not been near them as the corrosion and dirt on them was untouched. Also, I thought you would normally get signs of a little oil on the drainage bolt after a change, but it was dry as a bone.

 

[A Ward]

Given that you have probably spent somewhere around £20,000 purchasing your vehicle from them (just giving a ballpark 993 C2 figure) - you would like to think that your custom is important to them and that they would want you to come back to them in future for maintenance or if you ever decide to change your vehicle. If you used the correct tooling you should be able to remove the gearbox drain plug without damaging it or leaving any shiny 'slip' marks - that would normally only happen if you used an old worn socket or spanner. You should however be able to see if the dirt seal has broken around the plug where it has been removed - assuming of course that they haven't wiped it round afterwards to clear away any dirt/oil overspill and to enable a post oil change leak check to be carried out. I would go and explain your concerns to them and just ask if they could put them at rest by perhaps lifting the car and removing a small sample of gearbox oil with a syringe and tube; besides you are describing some gearbox chatter issue which you would think they would be keen to address given that you have just purchased the car from them - whilst I appreciate that they have already made the sale and have the money in their pocket - reputations are a lot harder to keep. For the sake of 15 minutes it would make you feel more confident and would mean that you would then go on the forum and say what a great bunch of guys they were, etc, etc... After all a lot of potential customers use this site. Regarding the MOTs I believe that you can electronically check vehicle MOT's including older ones (now that they are all recorded electronically) on-line. They definitely show up advisories, etc... so it may well be that they also have the emissions results as well. You could then compare them to the new set that failed - bearing in mind that the car would need to be at operating temperature during the emissions testing so if it had been sat for 45 minutes that may explain why it failed. I think that the 993 throws in extra fuel on start up to help get the cat up to operating temperature quicker - without a cat that would definitely show up on the emissions - perhaps try taking it for a quick thrash and then have the emissions checked straight away afterwards. Hope you get it all sorted.

 

[John Maddox]

I agree with the posted comments - but be careful with your expectations of these cars and the dealer. I am fussy myself but you cannot expect these cars to be "as new" with no faults. I would certainly drain off a small amount of oil and see if it is clean though as this is something you can change if not happy. The main thing is to use it a fair bit while the weather is reasonable in the first 6 months so if anything is seriously wrong you can get it corrected under the Sale of Goods Act as someone has said.