Nissan faster than turbo!
- Thread starter 944s2
- Start date
sawood12
New member
One thing we don't know yet is how the car feels. All the jap cars I've ever sat in and experienced don't even feel like £6k cars let alone £40k cars. There is a reason why the GT-R is sub £40k and the 911 is £100k+ - i'd bet my house that Nissan are not making a loss on the car. Inside it will feel cheap, flimsy, plasticy like every other Jap car out there. By all means go and spend £40k on the GT-R, but I bet you that it wont feel like £40k's worth of car. It wont even feel as good as £20k's worth of Audi.
If you read this weeks road test in Autocar GT-R v 997TT I am afraid to report back that Chris Harris said if both cars cost the same money the GT-R is the better car. He also praised the high quality interior fit and finish leather dash roll and neat instruments even when compared to the far more expensive 997 TT.
Last weekend a friend of mine took me to see one of the few cars here in the UK. I advised him, incorrectly, that the interior will probably explain why this technically fantastic car is only circa £60K, the interior was top notch in euro styling and quality feel all the way [&o]
Forget the 60K GT-R v 100K+ 997TT concept and just ask what other 60K car in the world offers the complete package the GT-R is serving up and the answer is in one simple word "none"
One has to say "Well Done Nissan" for moving the goal post by several miles
Can't see Porsche being too worried as not very many prepared to spend 100K+ will be looking at something costing 55-60K and there is always that question of "Image"
Porsche have had an "Image" associated with the name for decades, even if that number of new car buyers has increased from a lucky few thousand to a luckier 100K per year, far too many cars to be exclusive any longer, but Nissan would have been better off creating a Lexus division and removing that Micra badge anywhere from sight on there incredible GT-R [
][8D][] There's a lot of conversation about Performance, BHP, 0-60, 0-100 and Lap Times and whilst I agree it is all relevant, at the end of the day you pay's your money and make's ya' choice.
Having owned two Ferraries (F355 & F550) I am more than happy to be back with a Porsche (997 C4S).
There are many reasons as to why we choose what we do, mine was simple:
I wanted a performance car that was fast, handeled well, beautiful to look at, sounded great, and had four seats.
As I have children, 2 seater cars don't work for me any more (they just end up sitting in the garage looking pretty and costing large amounts of money for nothing). I searched high and low, tried the DB9 but with the drivers seat in the right position, the rear seats may as well not been there! RS4 was great but too ordinary. M3 not special enough, M6 just not a nice place to be inside. Bentley GT - now this was fantastic but I don't consider myself old enough yet!
Porsche 997 - Perfect fit!
New Nissan GT-R - I just couldn't (wouldn't) bring myself to purchase one. On some levels I am sure its better but overall the Porsche wins everytime.
Its all about where you want to be in life and if the end game is a Nissan, why bother?
Ian
Having owned two Ferraries (F355 & F550) I am more than happy to be back with a Porsche (997 C4S).
There are many reasons as to why we choose what we do, mine was simple:
I wanted a performance car that was fast, handeled well, beautiful to look at, sounded great, and had four seats.
As I have children, 2 seater cars don't work for me any more (they just end up sitting in the garage looking pretty and costing large amounts of money for nothing). I searched high and low, tried the DB9 but with the drivers seat in the right position, the rear seats may as well not been there! RS4 was great but too ordinary. M3 not special enough, M6 just not a nice place to be inside. Bentley GT - now this was fantastic but I don't consider myself old enough yet!
Porsche 997 - Perfect fit!
New Nissan GT-R - I just couldn't (wouldn't) bring myself to purchase one. On some levels I am sure its better but overall the Porsche wins everytime.
Its all about where you want to be in life and if the end game is a Nissan, why bother?
Ian
911addict
New member
Had 3 classic 911's including my 965 which is an old school supercar (especially with a few well chosen mods) so I am something of a P fan.
BUT, if I were to buy a new sports/super car and had between £50-£120K I would not buy a new Porcshe car today, sorry they don't do it for me anymore. I'd get the Nissan at the lower end or a Galliardo at the upper end.
...but there again, my 965 gives 100% satisfaction and its supercar fast, even in today's terms.
PS: as to the Jap quality and feel, I've had two and they were both excellent on both counts. Get real.
BUT, if I were to buy a new sports/super car and had between £50-£120K I would not buy a new Porcshe car today, sorry they don't do it for me anymore. I'd get the Nissan at the lower end or a Galliardo at the upper end.
...but there again, my 965 gives 100% satisfaction and its supercar fast, even in today's terms.
PS: as to the Jap quality and feel, I've had two and they were both excellent on both counts. Get real.
PGAdamopoulos
New member
ditto
]
Or a 2nd hand 964/993/996...[
]
True, but its a pity they did'nt put a proper gearbox in it.
I would love to have a drive of one, but journalistic hype does tend to build these cars up, only to knock them down later. Wonder if (when) it will start on the GTR.
Past experience shows that in years to come, many GTR's will be tired, hacked about 'fast-car' fodder, whereas many a 997TT will be pristine cars that still turn heads (watch a 3.2 go down the road).
George Elliott
New member
Fear not folks,
yes - the Nissan has to be regarded in any open minded assessment as a cracking car, - C.Harris (Autocar) referred to it as a baby Veyron. He does not suffer from journalistic hype IMO
But, Porsche family thinking produced the Veyron.......
and the 911 Turbo has two important tricks up its sleeve that I am aware of,
the Dual Clutch transmission was invented by Porsche for LeMans decades ago. I think they called it PDK - Porsche Double Kuplung. That makes a huge difference and the gtr has it today.
Second, the direct Injection version of the 911 Turbo engine has not made it to market yet.
The added power of the new engine, with the added time-saving AND added stability of uninterrupted drive to the wheels will FOR SURE take the 911 turbo ahead of the Datsun.
Can they take 100's of Kg out of the gtr - I doubt it
Accountants running Porsche, - yes I agree the regular models are not deeply engineered, but they are taking over VW, Audi, Seat, Lamborghini, Skoda, Rolls, plus half of China's partnerships. They can afford to develop the 911, they have the ability to do it, and for sure they will. But value for money - Nissan will always win there.
George
944t
964
yes - the Nissan has to be regarded in any open minded assessment as a cracking car, - C.Harris (Autocar) referred to it as a baby Veyron. He does not suffer from journalistic hype IMO
But, Porsche family thinking produced the Veyron.......
and the 911 Turbo has two important tricks up its sleeve that I am aware of,
the Dual Clutch transmission was invented by Porsche for LeMans decades ago. I think they called it PDK - Porsche Double Kuplung. That makes a huge difference and the gtr has it today.
Second, the direct Injection version of the 911 Turbo engine has not made it to market yet.
The added power of the new engine, with the added time-saving AND added stability of uninterrupted drive to the wheels will FOR SURE take the 911 turbo ahead of the Datsun.
Can they take 100's of Kg out of the gtr - I doubt it
Accountants running Porsche, - yes I agree the regular models are not deeply engineered, but they are taking over VW, Audi, Seat, Lamborghini, Skoda, Rolls, plus half of China's partnerships. They can afford to develop the 911, they have the ability to do it, and for sure they will. But value for money - Nissan will always win there.
George
944t
964
CAR didn't compare like with like, the Turbo they used was manual and the Tiptronic (albeit adding around £2k) imho would be much more suitable for Rockingham anyway and is accepted to be faster by .2 secs to 60 and presumeably to 100. Following this through beats the GT on two of the "important figures" they quoted leaving only the lap time as better for the GT-R. Also Ben seemed to struggle changing gears (and that is only on the part of the video that we saw) so perhaps another run with say The Stig the lap time might be different.
Words like "freaking me out" leave me cold and as for a T-shirt and no helmet!
The GT-R is a great car and a bargain but my last three Japanese cars are on the scrapheap now whereas my last three Porsches are still running!
Words like "freaking me out" leave me cold and as for a T-shirt and no helmet!
The GT-R is a great car and a bargain but my last three Japanese cars are on the scrapheap now whereas my last three Porsches are still running!
sawood12
New member
I agree with this, the Nissan is technically more advanced by almost two generations of technology when you take into account all the stability and traction control systems the Nissan will have. I'm afraid that PASM and the 4wd system the 911 turbo has are very rudamentary technologies in comparison - even the latest generations of Audi's have more advanced active suspension and stability control sytems. However given that driving the Nissan will be more akin to playing on a PS2 rather than giving you the feeling you are driving a real car (I don't know why they don't replace the steering wheel with a PS2 controller) do/would you want Porsche to incorporate all this electronic governing technology? One of the main features that attracts me to Porsches (including the newer models if only I could afford them) is that over the decades of development and (slow) introduction of new technologies they still feel like real cars to drive and even if they are not quite as fast as the Nissan it'd be the Porsche that would give you the biggest smile.
And in response to 911 addicts comments on modern Jap cars - I have driven many of them as hire cars over the years and I would agree that they are extremely well built and high quality cars, however they are nowhere near the league of German cars in terms of the interior feel and atmosphere of their interiors (with exception of BMW's that have very boring interiors in my opinion). If I was stuck in a traffic jam in an Audi or Porche i'd be in a much, much more comfortable and attractive place than the drab, mind-numbingly boring interiors of Jap cars (with the possible exception of Lexus - but Nissans are no Lexus's). The Porsche may be alot more expensive that the GT-R, but you get what you pay for. If performance is the one and only criteria on your list then the Nissan seems to be the better buy, but if you have a list of criteria that exceeds that one single requirement then on balance the Porsche will surely prove the be the better car.
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